It seems often when it comes to the multitudes of varying doctrines that have infiltrated into Christianity, it makes you ponder, “Who holds the keys to good and enduring doctrine that we should learn and obey?”. I see Facebook ‘debates’ of brethren who are involved in heated disputes that many times lead to misunderstandings and breaks in relations. This should never be among Christians. Do any of us have complete agreement on what the Lord hath said? Are doctrines important? Emphatically I say, “Yes and it’s salvational!” Herein lies my proof from the Bible.
1 Tim 4:16 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
So, doctrine is obviously salvational, but did Paul just mean the Gospel or any doctrine that might be found in Scripture? We simply need to back up to vs 11 to find out:
1 Tim 4:11-15
These things command and teach. 12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. 13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
In vs 13 we see, “…to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.” So, it should be generally applied to all Scripture and any doctrine that we are taught of the Holy Ghost. Many will not agree with this interpretation but what else could it mean? Keep in mind that they primarily were using the OT to teach from.
Okay, with all the schisms, shunning, mistreatment of brethren over doctrine, why is this so important? Because we are supposed to love each other as verse 12 describes. If one is in error, he needs to be shown the error from Scripture. Jam 5:19-20 Is it an easy task to lovingly deal with others that are in contradiction to your understanding? No, but there is nothing that is precious that is easy to obtain.
Well if cosmology is described in the Bible, why wouldn’t it be a doctrine that all Christendom seek to understand and explain? Mostly what I hear from brethren is, “Why does it matter?”.
How do we know which would be the true doctrine? Well, the Holy Ghost teaching each of us individually as we seek understanding on any particular subject.
John 14:26-31
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Now, part of the problem is that more mature Christians who have learned over the years from the Holy Ghost and experiences what are good interpretations, now seek to teach those doctrines to others. The seasoned believers who have endured spiritual battles, spent much time in study and meditation interact with others who have or have not made the same investment. Or, possibly they inverse is true regarding the persons involved. This leads to a conflict in views that, more often than not, will bring unnecessary divisions because of miscommunication, misunderstandings, and lack of suffering. These have been real life experiences for me over the course of 22 years and more recently when a dear brother of mine and I have come into hard conflict and seemingly a spiritual impasse that had brought division. I certainly do not think either of us desired that. Praise God, we have worked through our misunderstandings and are able to call each other brother.
Another way of telling if a doctrine we hold to is true, is to bring it before others for them to examine to see if they find truth therein. This would not be seeking to have some special secret doctrine which a person holds to rule over you. But, a plain and public reading and understanding that all can nod their heads in agreement with…eventually.
2 Pet 1:20 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
I say eventually because learning new things take time. I think every sincere Christian seeks to understand from above by the Holy Ghost. This can be difficult, painful, and very humiliating, especially if we are the ones who need to adjust our thinking or ideology. Part of the process of sharing doctrines are the ideas that God’s Word is as He describes.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Prov 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Eph 6:17-18 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Every good soldier in warfare knows very well that in training he will become better in battle. Do you train in study, prayer, armor bearing, shield and sword wielding? Is it fun getting smacked around by another Christian in training? No, but if the hearts are right with God and each other, who better to ready ourselves with for the real spiritual battle that lies at our doorstep? Do you not know that the Roman legions perhaps the greatest natural army that ever existed were trained by each other first, long before they entered into an actual battlefield?
2 Tim 2:3-5 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
So, when any man challenges a doctrine you are promoting and believe, often he will give you the pitfall challenge, “Do you mean if I don’t believe this I am not saved?” or maybe something like, “Is this salvational or non-salvational?”
1 Cor 10:12-13 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
I use this pitfall example metaphorically as an example what I believe is a spiritual bomb when this question is asked to challenge doctrines that are opposed.
Certainly, some doctrines don’t fall under the heading essential, important, or salvational so it shouldn’t matter, right?
My response is all doctrines from Scripture are important and matter, period. I think if there were exceptions to this idea they would have been listed by the Apostle Paul. I suppose this question of, “Salvational or Non” to be a trap of the devil to bring divisions, animosities of all sorts between believers.
Phil 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Each of us individually need to work out our own salvation. Do I care about my brother’s soul? Of course, but I can’t do his work for his salvation for him. But, I can do everything possible to ensure whatever I am teaching to be clear, concise, and biblical. This will edify the body of Christ and strengthen us together to go out into the harvest field together.
This naturally leads me back to the point of this article. Why do we ask each other this stumbling question, “Is this doctrine salvational or not?”. It automatically assumes conflict or denial in this spiritually loaded question.
On the first hand, if you reply it’s salvational and they don’t agree with the doctrine, you may have condemned them for:
1. ignorance
2. maturity
3. contrary understanding or experience
4. possible inability to comprehend naturally/spiritually
5. poor listening/speaking skills
6. stumbling of a brother.
…and there are other many possibilities.
On the second hand, if you say it’s not a salvational issue you have:
1. lessened the importance of God’s Word and His doctrines
2. reduced or eliminated the urgency for the theological opponent to change his mind about the ideology.
3. You have not been faithful to communicate spiritual warnings God has placed in His Word out of ‘respect’ for the person.
4. stumbled a brother who is unrighteously condemning your biblical view.
…and there are other many possibilities.
I think the solutions that I am attempted to communicate regarding our conflict can help many to be able to be unified in the Holy Spirit and yet really examine doctrines openly without fear of reprisals, shunning, name calling, or other ad hominem attacks as we grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Rom 14:7-12 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God
So, if we seek to love our brothers, we will not judge them as condemned eternally. Especially for those that hold doctrines that oppose our current beliefs. I know many will balk at that idea. Each saint of God will be judged individually before all. At the same time, we should seek to remove stumbling blocks as Paul did.
I definitely still believe we should test all things including doctrine. Remember previously, I agreed with God’s Word that doctrine is essential to the salvation of one’s soul, and those that hear us. 1 Tim 4:16 If I am convinced of a doctrine that the Lord has pressed upon me to teach/preach then I must out of duty to Him, the saints, and the lost do so. Likewise each of you have the same duty to not hold back what the Lord has given you toward me and everyone else. The neglect of doing these ideas aforementioned is one of the deep roots of the apostate ‘church’. At the same time God has communicated let not many among you teach, as we would give a stricter or harsher judgment. Much responsibility comes with the territory of being a Christian ‘teacher’ at whatever level.
Some of my views which involve cosmological doctrines from the Bible, were the source of our previously mentioned hard dispute. I have listed an in-exhaustive nine point list from the thread in footnote below.
Is Cosmology important? Of course, this area of knowledge in both Christendom and the secular world guides either to or away from the Creator. As an open air preacher of the Gospel I share this point over and again that God’s creation points to himself as God. Kind of like the building/builder, painting/painter ideas which show intelligent design points back to their creator. I’ve been shocked to hear holiness open air preachers profess that they don’t believe cosmology is important as a doctrine. What? If it’s important to use when preaching to the lost, it surely must be important for the brethren to examine it together and publicly.
Is this study/ideology in Christendom important? Is it essential or necessary for the salvation of my soul or others? Of course! Do I mean in this exact moment for you to be considered saved? No, I mean it is essential to study these doctrines as we work out our own faith in maturity and understanding from the Holy Ghost as we all walk down this narrow and difficult way. As many Christian geocentrists and flat earthers say, “Research it yourself.” To re-search is to search it out again.
If GC and FE are true then who would not want this information to be understood and obeyed by Christians? The answer of course is the father of all lies, the devil. I know his strategy is to: ruin human perspective of what God created so people won’t draw near to God through it, create doctrines which unbelievers may mock Christian ideology, kill and destroy souls that they may not be saved. Ironically, the very things that sinners mock regarding God’s creation are the very forensic evidence which He will eternally condemn them with. Do you see why cosmology is important now?
Rom 1:19-20 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
With all the misinformation from every direction on these issues you’d think a spiritual atomic bomb went off when someone talks about cosmology from the old paths, ie geocentricity or Hebraic cosmology. ….I think people are having a worldwide awakening to the idea of ‘truth’, and seeking that. If they are sincere they will find Jesus, who is the truth, the way, and the life. John 14:6
We see Job’s complaining against God brings a very strong scourging from God unto Job in chapters 38-39 regarding His cosmogony.
Then the Lord answered Job – This speech is addressed particularly to Job, …, because he had indulged in language of murmuring and complaint. God designed to bring him to a proper state of mind before he appeared openly for his vindication. -Albert Barnes Notes on Job
Job 38:1-6 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Matt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This passage begs the question about the stars falling to earth. Of course, the natural scientists don’t believe this, but do you? Is this simply poetry, simile, or something else? What’s your interpretation? Please feel free to comment below the blog post with thoughts.
SUMMARY OF MY CONCLUSIONS
Doctrine is important and salvational to ourselves and those that hear us. 1 Tim 4:16
We have a duty to share our doctrines with each other in love. 1 Tim 4:12
The Holy Ghost is the primary teacher for every Christian. John 14:26
We know the Holy Ghost teaches us truth. Titus 1:2
Scripture must be publicly taught and understood. 2 Pet 1:20
God’s Word is a spiritual sword. We must train with each other before battle.
Work out your own salvation. Phil 2:12
Stay out of Jesus’ judgment seat. Rom 14:7-12
Cosmology is important to God Gen 1, Job 38-39, Rom 1:19-20, Matt 24
Some of my cosmological views from the Bible, were the source of our previously mentioned hard dispute. After my cosmological opponent laid out his beliefs I used his outline and inserted my understandings. Here is how it went on FB.
“Since some religious ‘spirits’ have been stirred up by this post, I want to clarify some things and explain my position fully in regards to flat earth.
1. I 100% believe the earth is generally flat as evidenced by the oceans and water always seeks level which creates a horizon which is horizontal. I believe the earth is the center of the universe, stationary and immovable as God’s Word plainly states. I say all of this with no reservations whatsoever.
2. I have no issue whatsoever if someone chooses to believe the earth is rotund, oblate, pear shaped, or otherwise. Nor do I condemn those that believe helioentricity. However, I believe that the belief in the scientism and aforementioned doctrines to be anti-cogent, illogical, and scientifically unsound. But, don’t expect me to shut up because you don’t agree with what I believe by faith.
3. The bible is not silent on the cosmology of God’s creation.
4. I believe that anyone who makes cosmology of no importance for careful examination is wrong. Calling me a heretic hurts my feelings but I’ll get over it.
5. For some, the belief in the ‘science’ they have been taught in public school at every level has become an idol.
6. I think ribbing or joking about ideas in good fun to be okay. But, we are talking about God’s cosmogeny and it is no laughing matter to belittle what He hath said.
7. Accusing someone of being a heretic because they do not believe in heliocentrism or geocentrism or a particular shape of the world as we know it, is slander and sinful.
8. I believe that taking clear statements in God’s word to be figurative, simile, metaphor, or poetic could very well lead to major errors in understanding of God’s Word, will, and creation.
9. I believe the devils influenced and started the modern ideas of the ‘scientific’ heliocentric theory to discredit God and His Word.”
Lastly, “Do I think this is salvational or non salvific?” For me, emphatically yes! Because I have studied it thoroughly for four years and can not deny what God has taught in His Word. To do so would blaspheme the Holy Ghost who taught me these things. What about you? Have you even bothered to see if these things are so from the Bible? Or have you shrugged it off and thought, “Why is this important?” and gone back to sleep on the issues. If you have gotten this far into this blog, may I interest you in checking our our Confronting the Cosmogony page? Thank you and God bless you.
As a navigator in the U.S. Navy, retiring after 21 years it took me over four years of regular and sometimes very intense seasons of study to answer enough questions for myself to come to the cosmological view of geocentricity and the flat earth domed model of our ‘earth’ that I would actually discuss and promote these things publicly.
Ship Captains and First Mates have wrestled through hundreds of years of voyaging and the two worst areas to sail are the northern and southerly latitudes. Anything above or below the Arctic or Antarctic Circles were filled with horrifying stories of men and ship’s inexplicably and tragically lost. It is now my belief that God has topographically, environmentally, and naturally hindered the approaches to the ‘north pole’ or the icy edge of the ‘southern’ continent. Check the following reading I am currently studying for information about these relatively modern mariners struggles in the southerly latitudes especially.
Obviously, the globe model presents the traveler with a significantly different configuration than does the flat earth model, particularly in the so-called “southern hemisphere.” The discrepancy between the reality of a flat earth and the myth of a south seas.
Samuel Rowbotham, in his book Zetetic Astronomy, explains the dangers of the false charts based upon a globe model: In the southern hemisphere, navigators to India have often fancied themselves east of the Cape when still west, and have been driven ashore on the African coast, which, according to their reckoning, lay behind them. This misfortune happened to a fine frigate, the Challenger, in 1845.405 How came Her Majesty’s Ship Conqueror, to be lost? How have so many other noble vessels, perfectly sound, perfectly manned, perfectly navigated, been wrecked in calm weather, not only in a dark night, or in a fog, but in broad daylight and sunshine–in the former case upon the coasts, in the latter, upon sunken rocks–from being ‘out of reckoning,’ under circumstances which until now, have baffled every satisfactory explanation.406 Rowbotham explains how the British ship Challenger completed the circuit of the southern region, indirectly, to be sure, circumnavigating Antarctica. The approximate circumference of Antarctica is supposed to be approximately 14,460 statute miles on the globular earth model. However, the Challenger spent three years and traversed nearly 69,000 miles. That is a distance that would have allowed the ship to circle Antarctica over 4 times if the earth were in fact a globe. The 69,000 mile long journey around the circumference of the earth that is Antarctica, however, is perfectly explained by a flat earth.
Rowbotham quotes from voyagers, who found that their charts, which used a globular earth model, almost always put them off course in the south seas. “We found ourselves every day from 12 to 16 miles by observation in advance of our reckoning.” Another southern seafarer stated: “By our observations at noon we found ourselves 58 miles to the eastward of our reckoning in two days.” The spherical earth charts did not account for the expanse of distance between the lines of longitude the further south one travels on a flat earth. Consequently, the mariners’ true position on the earth, determined by using celestial navigation and a chronometer, was found to be off by several degrees from the position on the chart that was plotted using dead reckoning. One mariner detailed the distance that the erroneous charts, which assumed a globular earth, put them off course in the south seas. February 11th, 1822, at noon, in latitude 65.53. S. our chronometers gave 44 miles more westing than the log in three days. On 22nd of April (1822), in latitude 54.16. S. our longitude by chronometers was 46.49, and by D.R. (dead reckoning)47°11´: On 2nd May (1822), at noon, in latitude 53.46. S., our longitude by chronometers was 59° 27´, and by D.R. 61° 6´. October 14th, in latitude 58.6, longitude by chronometers 62° 46´, by account 65° 24´. In latitude 59.7. S., longitude by chronometers was 63°28´, by account 66°42´. In latitude 61.49. S., longitude by chronometers was 61° 53´, by account 66° 38´.
The skippers of the ships in the south seas could only guess that the discrepancies between their dead reckoning plotted on their charts and their true positions, confirmed by precise chronometers and sextants, was due to the currents. Rowbotham explains, however, that currents could not possibly account for the navigation errors, because the errors in the navigation were manifested regardless of whether the ships were traveling east or west. The commander of the United States exploring expedition, Lieutenant Wilkes, in his narrative, says that in less than 18 hours he was 20 miles to the east of his reckoning in latitude 54° 20´ S. He gives other instances of the same phenomenon, and, in common with almost all other navigators and writers on the subject, attributes the differences between actual observation and theory to currents, the velocity of which, at latitude 57° 15´ S., amounted to 20 miles a day. The commanders of these various expeditions were, of course, with their education and beliefin the earth’s rotundity, unable to conceive of any other cause for the differences between log and chronometer results than the existence of currents. But one simple fact is entirely fatal to such an explanation, viz., that when the route taken is east or west the same results are experienced. The water of the southern region cannot be running in two opposite directions at the same time; and hence, although various local and variable currents have been noticed, they cannot be shown to be the cause of the discrepancies so generally observed in high southern latitudes between time and log results. The conclusion is one of necessity–is forced upon us by the sum of the evidence collected that the degrees of longitude in any given southern latitude are larger than the degrees in any latitude nearer to the northern centre; thus proving the already more than sufficiently demonstrated fact that the earth is a plane, having a northern centre, in relation to which degrees of latitude are are diverging lines, continually increasing in their distance from each other as they are prolonged towards the great glacial southern circumference.
Conclusions by Br. John McGlone
In closing: 1. Admiral Byrd’s adventures into the Antarctica revealed the immensity and impossibility of actually confirming the globe. 2. The forensic evidence of the edge of our world has forced the nations of the earth to an inclusive treaty that everyone has kept! 3. The old school mariners had the same problem modern ones do in higher latitudes especially the southerly 4. The actual distance to circle the ‘continent of Antarctica’, or more accurately circle the perimeter of the edge, must be greater than approximately 70.000 nautical miles. 5. Because I don’t believe we have even ventured close to where the heavenly firmament [dome] meets the edge of the terra firma we can’t really give an exact measure of the distance in point four. 6. God has set these limits upon mankind to point them to Himself. Topographic, extreme weather temperatures, pressures, storms, hardness of the firmaments, etc also prevent us from venturing beyond our terrestrial environ. 7. All of this is confirmed by natural and spiritual evidences in our own experiences, in Holy writ, and extrabiblical literature.
Finally, IF the edge of the FE = ~70,000 nautical miles / π or 3.14 = ~ 22,293 nm This is very close to the calculated circumference of the ‘globe’ by the pythagorean theorum and is confirmed by actual distances from the center or ‘north’ pole and the edge of the antarctic continent or rim. From 90°N the north pole or center pole of the earth to the equator = 5400 nm from the equator to 90°S or the edge of the face of the earth = 5400 nm. So, 5400 nm X 4 quadrants = 21,600 nm. Stop the presses this must mean we live on a globe right? Wrong. The pi presumes a circle in our calculation but for global believers they presume a 3D globe. But, FE’rs don’t presume a pancake, but a structure as the Bible describes with foundations, pillars, the deep etc. If you go to google earth you will see how they can jump between 2D & 3D with the click of a button, let that sink in for a few minutes….
I had a friend recently share with me a passage from the book of Hebrews which contradicted my assertions about cosmology that there are no other ‘planets’ or ‘worlds’ beside the earth. I simply believe they are stars in the firmament. I believe this earth is the centerpiece of creation according to the Scripture. Here is that verse that sent me seeking more truth about cosmology from God’s Word.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
In the Strong’s we see the KJV translate worlds or Aion G165 in the following manner: ever (71x), world (38x), never (with G3364) (with G1519) (with G3588) (6x), evermore (4x), age (2x), eternal (2x), miscellaneous (5x).
αἰώνaiṓn, ahee-ohn’; from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end).
Aion or Eon is tantamount to ages, times or epochs periods or seasons, yet world is secondarily described as well.
My cosmological view of the heavenlies is as follows:
1. God made daylight and nightlight and divided them on the first day before the Sun, Moon, and stars were made on the fourth day. Gen 1:3-5
2. the heavenly firmament which divided the waters from the waters. (hardened enclosed dome) Gen 1:6-8 Points 3-5 are supported by Gen 1:14-18 created on the fourth day of creation after day and night light were created on day one. Doesn’t this fact shock you as a Christian?
3. the Sun & Moon are both within the firmament are great lights.
4. all the stars are named luminaries by the Bible
5. the wandering stars to include the Sun, Moon, and Earth are misnamed as ‘planets’ by the heretical astronomy science falsely called of this age.
6. the counter rotating star trails we see in the heavenlies are possibly described in Ezekiel’s wheel as God sits upon his throne above the circle of the earth.
1 Tim 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
Isaiah 40:21-22 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Ezekiel 1:15-22 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. 19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds
To answer my friends original objection about more than one world, we see the Apostle Matthew answer of two worlds, plurality.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
I am sure we all believe this idea of the world now and the one to come, no matter what our cosmological view. The epoch or era to come the New Jerusalem come down from heaven is a new world. Also, after that reign God will loose Satan from the abyss to rise up one last time before He will completely destroy him and the armies raised up against God. Then the everlasting Kingdom or last and infinite epoch or world would then be established in which Jesus will rule and reign with the saints of God forever and ever, amen.
Be sure to watch the great videos, very intriguing. God bless you.
Note: There is no horizon that blocks the end of this very long straight tunnel. But, we can’t visually acquire the end through the law of diminishing perspective. This is known as vanishing point.
by John McGlone
Having studied Geocentricity and the form of the earth for about two years now, I think I am finally at peace about what I am understanding. Here are some earlier blogs I posted on this issue: 1. The Scriptural Foundation of Geocentricity 2. The Flat Earth Controversy. I thought I would begin to document some very important points that bring about a doubt on what has been taught to us by the ‘science’ of this world about Heliocentricity (Orbital Solar System) and the Globe of the Earth. Generally, we are instructed from the very beginnings of our experiences on the Universe, it’s origins, and characteristics. So, in this point paper I would like to discuss the law of linear perspective which has much to say about what and how we are seeing the world and universe around us.
Firstly, I would like to define said law of linear perspective. noun 1. amathematicalsystemforrepresentingthree-dimensionalobjectsand spaceonatwo-dimensionalsurfacebymeansofintersectinglinesthat aredrawnverticallyandhorizontallyandthatradiatefromonepoint(one-pointperspective)twopoints(two-pointperspective)or severalpointsonahorizonlineasperceivedbyaviewerimaginedin anarbitrarilyfixedposition.
Secondly, I’d like to recognize that everything we see with our eyes are mathematically and logically processed by the retina passing into the brain to continue the process of understanding the world we are seeing around us.
Here is an example I’d like to start with on our understanding of the laws of perspective in what is a very real life situation. We will be using the well known, scientific, and mathematically proven formula for the earth’s roundness based on the same ‘scientifically’ proven circumference of the planet of ~25,000 statute miles. That formula is: Distance to Horizon² X 8″/12 = rise/fall of the arc of the horizon.
1.Imagine you are flying a plane at 36,000 feet. An aerial observer can see 232.6 miles in one direction. But, from the cockpit one can observe in opposing directions gaining a total observation of 465.2 miles. For reference, here is an altitude horizon calculator for distance. Horizon Distance Calculator
465² X 8/12 = Feet of Rise and Fall that we should see on the globe. Following the well known curvature formula that is mathematically proven: 465 X 465 X 8/12 = 144,150 feet of total rise and decline of the arc across that 180 degree observation. Keep in mind we are flying at 36,000 feet. Can you imagine seeing such an interesting and different sight? For 90 degrees of the view from left to center we should see an amazing 72,075 feet of rise, then the same fall from center view to the right horizon on our starboard wing. However, since our childhoods we have all been taught that the earth is so large the curvature of the earth is minuscule from what we actually experience in day to day life.
This perplexing mathematical formula which is supposed to help us calculate the curve of the earth, does exactly the opposite when a person employs it without accepting the presupposition of a globe earth to distort their sight.
Now with all the aforesaid information in mind, why don’t we see the curvature that the globe formula demands if it were true? As the below picture does not show, we should see a mountain of water climbing up to over twice the altitude of this plane to a majestic height of 72,075 feet above the median sea level!
A great photo of someone trying to disprove the flatness of the earth, yet helping the cause immensely.
I served 21 years in the U.S. Navy sailing the world’s oceans and looking at that horizon perspective for many tens of thousands of long hours standing watch. I was a lookout, helmsman, and navigator for most all of those years. I never questioned the rotundity of the earth as I had been taught since grade school. I had these ideas reinforced in my navigational training as well. I worked with mostly Mercator projection charts to safely transit the Atlantic, Caribbean, Mediterranean, Indian, Persian, Adriatic, and Pacific oceans and seas. One of the often used arguments that prevented me from believing this flat earth ‘theory’ was the fact that we could watch ships, lighthouses, and landmarks pass over the visual horizon and out of sight. This really does seem to prove the globe model very simply in anyone’s mind. But, the same lines of perspective that causes telephone poles, cars, train tracks and the like to diminish to vanishing point is not roundness, but simple ocular vanishing point. The picture at the top of this blog post is a perfect example of a straight subway train track and tunnel not going over the horizon, but simply vanishing by ocular weakness. Put a telescope to this tunnel or a lighthouse or a ship at vanishing point you will see they did not actually travel over the horizon at all! You can see this demonstrated in these very cool videos:
Objects Over the Curvature of the Earth
More Video Evidence on Curvature Myth
With enough distance everything we see with our naked eye diminishes to vanishing point. This includes sun, moon, stars, etc. that approach our visual horizon and then diminish to ocular non existence. The assumption that the world is spinning and therefore that is why we see the heavenly bodies racing about is just that, an assumption of a theory. ‘Well, what about NASA, ISS, astronauts on the moon, etc?’, you the dear reader may ask. For now could we just stick to what we are seeing with our eyes and minds here in front of us? The same ‘science’ that brought you Darwin evolution, and Big Bang Theory is the same God rejecting, Bible hating philosophies that tell us that Heliocentric Theory and the shape, orbits, spinning, and travels of planet earth are true according to them.
When looking at telephone poles that are diminishing to the horizon, we don’t assume that they are going on the other side of the curve of the globe do we? Here is a great video from Brian Mullins on Perspective.
What do star trails have to do with flat earth? Well again perspective is all we are talking about. Many misunderstandings are created by the fact that most all of us start with the assumption we are living on a globe versus living on a circle as the Bible describes. Now since we see star trails at the equator are diverging from each other, anyone must ask themselves what is causing these opposing whirlpools of diverging lights? Shouldn’t the epicenters be at opposing axis’s? If that is the case how can you see both at the same time? Isn’t this the same effect of seeing the Southern Cross and Polaris at the same time?Don’t the globalists deny anyone can see this phenomenon because of curvature? How is this possible according to the roundness everyone promotes in the ‘scientific’ community?
Here is a great video which gives some great understandings of perspectives in regards to star trails. Flat Earth Star Trails Explained
In all of its 66 books the Bible never once says that the Earth moves around the sun or rotates on an axis – not even a hint. In contrast there are in essence hundreds of references in which the Scriptures are implicitly, if not explicitly geocentric. Moreover, there is absolutely no Scriptural foundation for the heliocentric position, nor are there any formal scientific experiments which prove it. The faith based essentials of heliocentricity (stationary sun and a moving earth which is both rotating AND orbiting) have NEVER been proved by any scientific experiment. In fact ALL the scientific experiments clearly point to a stationary earth, a fact which is openly, albeit reluctantly, admitted by heliocentrists. Thus the heliocentric position is neither founded upon a Scriptural or true scientific basis, but rather it is admittedly chosen over the geocentric position more for philosophical reasons, especially due to the moral ramifications of the earth occupying such a favored position.
Rather than simply believing what God has revealed in the testimony of the Scriptures regarding the sun and earth, the unconscious but tragic epistemology of most is – We know what the Bible really MEANS regarding the sun and the earth because of what science DECLARES regarding the sun and the earth. Are you willing to take an honest look at the testimony of God Himself revealed in His word regarding the nature of the cosmos? If you are His disciple, that is indeed your hearts desire and the declaration of Scripture is the only evidence needed when considering any subject of life.
“He that is of God heareth God’s words…” John 8:47
1. The Foundation of the Scriptures
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2
This Scripture is absolutely foundational to one’s worldview
The Earth was created on day one as the focal point and center of creation.
Consider – If the only visible created material entity at the end of the first day of Creation was the Earth, then the Earth was created as the very center of the universe.
Moreover, there was nothing which the Earth would have been able to orbit at this time and there is no reason whatsoever to assume it was rotating at 1000 mph.
The sun and the other heavenly bodies were created on the fourth day. Since they are peripheral to the Earth, and their purpose is that of serving the Earth, it is logical to assume they revolve around the Earth.
The sun, planets and stars were placed IN the firmament which was spread out as a tent (Isaiah 40:22) and placed AROUND the Earth.
The Earth is clearly distinct from both the firmament of heaven and the heavenly bodies placed in the firmament.
Heliocentricity however removes this distinction set forth in Genesis chapter [1], and makes the Earth merely another celestial body in the universe.
The Geocentric position is thus clearly the most spiritually logical position to take.
Furthermore, God is most glorified in the geocentric model as it is in accordance with his word, His unique purposes in the Earth and the indubitable revelation of Himself to mankind through Earth’s favored position.
2. The Scriptural Declaration of the Sun’s Rising and Setting
He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down. Psalm 104:19
The first portion of this verse is clearly not poetical, thus the second portion should not be interpreted as strictly poetical either.
Most who balk at Geocentricity posit that where the Bible speaks of the sun rising and setting it is thus stated because it is seen this way from man’s perspective. However in this verse the Scriptures declare that the going down of the sun is an action that is actually occurring from the sun’s perspective..
Thus both the moon and sun are said to observe the appointments of their Creator.
The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. Genesis 19:23
And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. Genesis 28:11
And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. Genesis 32:31
But Moses’ hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. Exodus 17:12
If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. Exodus 22:3
And when the sun is down, he shall be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things; because it is his food. Leviticus 22:7
And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah. Numbers 2:3
The two tribes and the half tribe have received their inheritance on this side Jordan near Jericho eastward, toward the sunrising. Numbers 34:15 Then Moses severed three cities on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. Deuteronomy 4:41
And they possessed his land, and the land of Og king of Bashan, two kings of the Amorites, which were on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. Deuteronomy 4:47
Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? Deuteronomy 11:30
But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt. Deuteronomy 16:6
But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp again. Deuteronomy 23:11
In any case thou shalt deliver him the pledge again when the sun goeth down, that he may sleep in his own raiment, and bless thee: and it shall be righteousness unto thee before the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 24:13
At his day thou shalt give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he is poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the LORD, and it be sin unto thee. Deuteronomy 24:15
From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. Joshua 1:4
Until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD’S servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. Joshua 1:15
And it came to pass at the time of the going down of the sun, that Joshua commanded, and they took them down off the trees, and cast them into the cave wherein they had been hid, and laid great stones in the cave’s mouth, which remain until this very day. Joshua 10:27
Now these are the kings of the land, which the children of Israel smote, and possessed their land on the other side Jordan toward the rising of the sun, from the river Arnon unto mount Hermon, and all the plain on the east: Joshua 12:1
And the land of the Giblites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrising, from Baalgad under mount Hermon unto the entering into Hamath. Joshua 13:5
And turned from Sarid eastward toward the sunrising unto the border of Chislothtabor, and then goeth out to Daberath, and goeth up to Japhia. Joshua 19:12
And then the coast turneth westward to Aznothtabor, and goeth out from thence to Hukkok, and reacheth to Zebulun on the south side, and reacheth to Asher on the west side, and to Judah upon Jordan toward the sunrising. Joshua 19:34
And Gideon the son of Joash returned from battle before the sun was up. Judges 8:13
And it shall be, that in the morning, as soon as the sun is up, thou shalt rise early, and set upon the city: and, behold, when he and the people that is with him come out against thee, then mayest thou do to them as thou shalt find occasion. Judges 9:33
And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? and what is stronger than a lion? And he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle. Judges 14:18
And when all the people came to cause David to eat meat while it was yet day, David sware, saying, So do God to me, and more also, if I taste bread, or ought else, till the sun be down. 2 Samuel 3:35
And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain. 2 Samuel 23:4
And there went a proclamation throughout the host about the going down of the sun, saying, Every man to his city, and every man to his own country. 1 Kings 22:36
And the battle increased that day: howbeit the king of Israel stayed himself up in his chariot against the Syrians until the even: and about the time of the sun going down he died. 2 Chronicles 18:34
So we laboured in the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning till the stars appeared. Nehemiah 4:21
Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Job 9:7
The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Psalm 50:1
The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens. Psalm 104:22
From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD’S name is to be praised. Psalm 113:3
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. Ecclesiastes 1:5
I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay. Isaiah 41:25
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isaiah 45:6
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. Isaiah 59:19
Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him: and he laboured till the going down of the sun to deliver him. Daniel 6:14
And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: Amos 8:9
And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live. Jonah 4:8
Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. Micah 3:6
Thy crowned are as the locusts, and thy captains as the great grasshoppers, which camp in the hedges in the cold day, but when the sun ariseth they flee away, and their place is not known where they are. Nahum 3:17
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 1:11
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:45
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. Matthew 13:6
And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils. Mark 1:32
But when, the sun was up it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. Mark 4:6
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. Mark 16:2
Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. Luke 4:40
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Ephesians 4:26
For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways. James 1:11
If God wanted to reveal to us the sun actually rises and sets, how else could He have said it?
[ A general rule of hermeneutics is that we are not to depart from the literal and obvious sense of a passage, except where reason makes it untenable or spiritual necessity requires it. Thus since there is NO Scriptural or natural proof that a literal meaning is not implied much less impossible regarding the plain motion of the sun, we must take it as plainly stated in the Scriptures. Furthermore, the Scriptures have been given unto us as a Revelation from God. As a Revelation, they reveal to us the truth and thus go beyond what mere man can know by natural observation. If the Scriptures were a retelling of what man saw, then they would cease to be Revelation, for there is nothing revelatory about the language of mere appearance.]
3. The Sun Moving or Standing Still
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. Joshua 10:12-13
If one receives the word of God as the word of God, the evidence in support of a geocentric model is indisputable here.
Joshua plainly commanded the sun to stand still. He did not order the earth to cease rotating nor did he qualify his statement with the divine knowledge that the sun was merely made to appear stationary.
It is only possible to stop something that is moving. This indicates that the sun is indeed moving, while the earth consequently stands still.
Perhaps the greatest proof the sun actually moves is the fact that we have the confirming narrative of the Spirit of God who plainly declares the sun actually stopped moving. THE SPIRIT OF GOD SAID…”And the sun stood still…So the sun stood still…” Joshua 10:13
Is the Bible the word of God or not? Indeed! Did God himself deceive us regarding reality? Absolutely not!
It is of the utmost spiritual importance that one bow to the authority of the didactic narrative of God’s word; THIS IS THE HEART AND MARROW OF BEING SUBMITTED TO THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST! For if one ever autonomously imposes their understanding thereon, they usurp the lordship of Christ, undermine the very foundation of Christianity and knowledge, and they open a pandora’s box of skepticism whereby any other didactic statement of the Scripture can be dismissed in the name of “common sense” or scientism.
God has also according to His divine proof criteria granted us the required [3] witnesses to establish the factuality of this miraculous event: The clear narrative of the Spirit of God, the testimony within the book of Jasher, and Habakkuk 3:11 which confirms the sun actually stood still.
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. Psalm 19:5-6
Whilst no one should deny that poetic language is used in Psalm 19:4-5 which speaks of the sun as a “bridegroom coming out of his chamber,” it is obvious that said metaphorical language is being used to enhance the reality of the sun’s movement around the earth and not to dilute or deny it.
Since the fact that the sun revolves around the earth has already been established by the historical and didactic narratives of Scripture (e.g., Joshua 10:10-14), the poetical passages of Scripture that speak of the sun moving around the earth must be taken as factual statements with an enhanced description for literary effect (e.g., “as a man running a race”). This is certainly true of the Psalms where most of the geocentric passages occur. In fact, Psalms is the most quoted book in the New Testament for verification of historical and doctrinal truth, even though every Psalm is in actuality a Hebrew poem.
Psalm 19 is a Messianic Psalm which likens Christ, the Bridegroom, to the sun (“His going forth…”) and then uses the analogy in connection with the ensuing declaration of the sure testimony of the word of God.
Why would God use a figurative fable as a confirming witness to all the earth regarding the revelation of His very existence to all mankind and glory as declared in this Psalm (v. 1-4)
Why would God use a figurative fable to describe the actual coming of Christ, the Bridegroom, for His bride (v. 5-6)
Why would God use a figurative fable to testify of the absolute perfection and trustworthiness of His word which is set forth in this Psalm (v. 7-8)
It would be the height of folly to use an analogy which is actually false, only “appearing” to be true, and then declare that through this falsity set forth in God’s word and particularly in this Psalm that the testimony of God’s word to man is absolutely perfect and sure.
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. Isaiah 38:8
THE SPIRIT OF GOD SAID…”So the sun returned ten degrees.”
Moreover, if it had been only the shadow on Ahaz’s dial which moved, it would not have fallen under the notice of other nations, or have been the subject of their inquiry, as it was of the Babylonians ~ “Howbeit in the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to enquire of the wonder that was done in the land, God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart” 2 Chronicles 32:31
So let all thine enemies perish, O LORD: but let them that love him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. And the land had rest forty years. Judges 5:31
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isaiah 13:10
4. The Earth is at Rest
[Every mention in the Scriptures of the Earth “moving” is an anomaly in reference to judgment]
The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Psalm 93:1
There are very few options available regarding the meaning of the “establishment of the world” if one faithfully follows this analogy and thus seeks to make a legitimate comparison to God. The world cannot refer to the political machinations of the nations, for they shift quite frequently. It could not refer to the whole universe, since if the universe were moved, to where would it move? The best way the Psalmist’s analogy can have its intended effect is if an object exists that is unmoved in the midst of all other objects that are moving.
For example, if the Psalmist were referring to an unmoving earth, then the image displayed by Psalm 93:1 would be most logical and accurate, for the Earth would be the only body at rest in the midst of a sea of moving bodies in the heavens. Moreover, according to Genesis chapter 1 this the the exact impression we are given.
If we interpret this statement thus, the Earth would be the foundational reference point in Creation; the only immovable object, and thus the best example to picture of the immutability of God himself.
More to the point is that Psalm 93:2 adds that God’s throne is also “established.” Logically, if his throne does not move then the world cannot move either.
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. Ecclesiastes 1:4-7
The language of motion (14 verbs) employed here is literal in regards to the activity of ALL the other entities mentioned (i.e. the wind and rivers.) So why would the pattern of this passage be broken and the sun and the earth arbitrarily have figurative language used for them?
And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest. Zechariah 1:11
Years before, Isaiah had prophesied of the dissolution of the present creation, including the earth (Isaiah 34:4, 24:19). Other scripture writers had done the same (Psalm 102:25, 26, etc.) But the “they” in Zechariah 1:11 (the riders of the red, speckled, and white horses mentioned in the eighth verse) reported that the times had not yet arrived for the dissolution of the earth, thus indicating that this is the state of the earth at a time prior to that time of judgment.
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 1 Chronicles 16:30
Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Job 9:6 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Psalm 46:2 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. Psalm 96:10
The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved. Psalm 99:1
Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. Psalm 104:5
Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. Psalm 119:90
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. Isaiah 13:13
And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. Isaiah 24:18
The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. Isaiah 24:19
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. Isaiah 24:20
Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; Isaiah 49:8
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. 1 Corinthians 8:13
[Although I would concede the verses are not all necessarily and absolutely cosmological in nature, who is to say that they do not communicate a cosmological truth? It is undeniable however that they do serve a very important purpose by which they communicate to us what the Bible DOES HAVE TO SAY about the earth and the obvious message here is that the earth is neither rotating or orbiting. Surely God knew this would be an issue. Would He communicate over and over that the sun, the heavens and stars are indeed moving, give us the obvious general sense that the earth is stationary, not even once giving even a hint it is moving, and then be pleased we disregard all of this which is plainly communicated and believe modern God rejecting scientists who do not even have one experiment to show otherwise, only a theory. I trow not!]
5. The Circuits
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. Psalm 19:6
The heavenly bodies (sun, stars, and heavens) are specifically said to move in a course or circuit. This language is never used for the earth. Conversely, the earth is said over and over to have “foundations”, to “abide”, be “stable” and “unmoved” while this language is NEVER used for the sun and stars. Selah!
Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. Job 22:14
They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera. Judges 5:20
6. Direction (Up/Down/Under)
[Consider, for example, the many references to “the heavens above” and “the earth below.” One is forced to ask: “Above or below what? Above the earth and below the heavens?” Similarly, heaven is spoken of as “up” and earth as “down.” Other such direction-expressing pairs of words exist in the Bible. For example, there is “ascending” with “descending,” and ”over” with “beneath.” Likewise, the many times that the term “host of heaven” is used shows the stars and angels to be geocentrically disposed. When the height of heaven is mentioned, it is mentioned as measured from the earth’s center (e.g., Isaiah 55:9) and from the earth’s surface (Psalm 103:11). Such references occur everywhere in the Bible and they are certainly not heliocentric or Copernican. God’s geometry is clearly geocentric.]
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Acts 1:9-10
Jesus went straight up from Jerusalem which would be in accord with the fact that God’s throne is directly above Jerusalem.
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. Acts 7:55
In like manner God’s throne is seen by Stephen who is in Jerusalem and looks directly up into the heavens.
This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee. Deuteronomy 2:25
And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them. Deuteronomy 7:24
Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven, and bless thy people Israel, and the land which thou hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey. Deuteronomy 26:15
The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven. Deuteronomy 29:20
And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. Joshua 2:11
Return, we beseech thee, O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold, and visit this vine; Psalm 80:14
What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? Ecclesiastes 1:3
7. General Scriptures
And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. Genesis 28:12
The ladder could only be steady if the earth neither rotated neither orbited
If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee. Deuteronomy 30:4
The use of the word “outmost” implies that heaven is bounded
And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. 1 Chronicles 21:16
Geocentric because of the implication of immobility between earth and heaven
Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? Job 38:33
Geocentricity declares the dominion of the ordinances of heaven is set in the earth.
The astral bodies were made for the earth, to give light upon it, for the measurement of time, and for seasons. As such, the dominion over the ordinances of heaven must be on earth, the body for which they were created. This is the reverse of astrology which sets the dominion of the earth to the stars. Indeed modern science also sets the stars – the sun in particular- to rule the earth.
Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him. Psalm 68:4
This Scripture implies that the heavens move
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? Isaiah 66:1
The plumbline shows that salvation comes down to the earth; note the symbolism of the plummet, being made of lead which is considered the basest of metals, residing closest to the earth, represents man who cannot save himself (Ephesians 2:8-9).
The second view allows moral relativism, especially if “all is relative.” At this point there is a connection with the theory of relativity in physics which, among other things, is designed to account for why the earth seems to be standing still at the dynamic center of the universe.
2 Chronicles 9:18 suggests that the footstool was fastened to the throne. “And there were six steps to the throne, with a footstool of gold, which were fastened to the throne, and stays on each side of the sitting place, and two lions standing by the stays.”
If Heliocentrism were true this would violate the type and God would be receiving a perpetual “foot massage.” 🙂
Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more: Amos 7:7-8
If the earth is rotating, let alone the profusion of other superimposed motions, a plumbline at the Temple from the mercy seat would seldom, if ever, point to God’s throne with New Jerusalem. Such a line, when seen from the throne, would aimlessly flail about. But in Scripture, this line points to God’s throne, thus showing the fixity of the earth with respect to the third heaven.
That God’s third heaven is fixed, we shall have to take at his word, for only God the creator can supply the reference. The plumbline, in turn, holds the plummet, a lead ball. In Isaiah 28:17 this plumbline over Jerusalem connects Jesus (verses 9-13) with the righteous on earth. In Amos 7:7 the LORD shows Amos the plumbline of Isaiah 28 and prophesies that the promised tribulational desolation (verse 9) ”will not again pass by them any more.”
The “wall” of verse 7 upon which stands the LORD must be the temple wall showing the cosmological heavenly alignment of the place where God puts his name. Zechariah calls attention to this plumbline when prophesying the rebuilding of the temple (Zechariah 4:10) and associates the plummet with the cosmic events of Revelation 1 through the seven candles, “…for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”
The plumbline shows that salvation comes down, as in Psalm 19, to the earth; note the symbolism of the plummet, being made of lead which is considered the basest of metals, residing closest to the earth, represents man who cannot save himself (Ephesians 2:8-9). The plumbline points from earth to heaven, (Jesus being the plumbline and our way to heaven,) and it also points from heaven to earth, bringing judgment upon Jerusalem, as we see in II Kings 21:13. Note that the word “line” in II Kings 21:13, Psalm 19, and many other places is a geocentric notion in that it is the geocentric, diurnally rotating heavens that produce the lines.
8. The Glory and Resurrection of Christ and the Rising of the Sun
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 1:11 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. Malachi 4:2
Jesus is referred to as the “Sun” of righteousness who arises. If the rising of the sun in figurative then this analogy regarding the foundational doctrine of Christianity, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, is undermined.
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. Mark 16:9 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19
The day star is the sun which is a type of Christ. Why would God make this analogy regarding our spiritual growth if the sun only appears to rise?
9. The Bible is clearly a Geocentric book
John Wesley declared that the Copernican system “tended toward infidelity.”
John Owen stated that the Copernican model was a “delusive and arbitrary hypothesis, contrary to Scripture.”
Matthew Henry stated…”day and night, summer and winter; which are interchanged by the motion of the sun.”
“A certain new astrologer who wanted to prove that the earth moves and not the sky, the sun and the moon…I believe the holy Scriptures, for Joshua commanded the sun to stand still and not the earth.” Luther
Furthermore, Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo knew full well that their deviant theory was contrary to the Scriptures.
“In questions concerning the natural sciences Holy Writ must occupy the last place.” Galileo
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. “ Isaiah 8:20
Geocentric Animation of planets, moon, with earth centered. NOTE: This is based on orbital globes for illustration
Br. John’s Thoughts in Short
I want to thank Br. Charlie for his extensive research and article on this important subject. In all my studies of the Bible I have never seen anything that would poetically, figuratively, or literally show the heliocentric model as true. If I trust God versus men, then all the ‘scientific’ information that men produce to disprove God or His Word I flatly reject. I know, I know, we have pictures, videos, etc that ‘prove’ the world’s helio position. I have the Word of God which is pure and more precious than gold or silver which reproves such thinking.
Jesus taught we are to love God with our minds. This is a part of the first of the two Greatest commandments which fulfill the law.
Mat_22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mar_12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Rom_12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Jer_23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
The world scorns, mocks, ridicules, and shames most of the Christian worldview. When we go out preaching to the lost we hear things like; 1. you people believe in talking snakes and donkeys? 2. Where did Cain get his wife? 3. Where is Jesus’ appearing after all these millennium? 4. Don’t you believe in ‘science’; evolution, big bang, etc? 5. How is it loving that God throw people into eternal fire forever? 6. God loves everybody, no matter what! 7. God if you’re real, strike me dead with lightning! These kind of carnal, worldly philosophies most believers reject very quickly. Why do we trust sinners who run most of our universities, high, middle, and elementary schools with the intellectual, spiritual , physical, and career development of our children?
Prov_22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
preaching at Univ. of Louisville to humanistic and evolutionary students
I had been warned by a dear brother when I first posted a link to Charlie’s article some months ago that the geocentric model will lead to flat earth views. He was right, it did, but I am not blindly accepting that, just examining what is a very controversial yet interesting subject. See the link below for that article…
Beware, Rob Skiva the primary author of this article, does not believe the trinity.
