Doubtful Disputes With Cursing Christians?

Walking the Tightrope of the Holiness Way!
by John McGlone

UPDATE 1/30/17:  Recently, while preaching in Washington, DC at the inauguration I was approached by David Giro of LaCroix and Skelly’s preaching group.  He made the accusation  that our whole group and I needed to repent of our reviling and railing against sinners and that we are on our way to hell.   I will give more testimony on this sharp division caused by LaCroix & Skelly in the near future.

There have been multitudes of sharp divisions in the open air preaching community over words and behaviors that some, including myself, employ while preaching God’s Word and the Gospel to the lost in our world.  With that in mind I say with Paul that I praise God that the Gospel is preached!

Php 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Setting a Standard of Holiness in Speech and Conduct

With that said, I have wrestled with a standard for which I would govern myself according to the Holy Ghost in my open air work.  So, whatever motivates another brother to preach and how he preaches, I give God glory and thanks the Gospel is preached.  For myself, I must come to a place where I am obeying the Holy Ghost and what He is teaching me in these matters.

Here are some standards I am laying out for myself:
1.  I will use words from the KJV Bible(preferred) in context and applicability.
2.  I will use words that are scientific or biblical in regards to sexual sins or otherwise.
3.  I will limit the use of slang, inflammatory, or non biblical words which may unnecessarily incite hearers.
4.  I will seek to use primarily biblical type parables vs. parables that play to the imaginations of sin.
5.  I will not apply my standard to other people but pray they seek the Holy Ghost for a standard for themselves and walk according to His direction if they have not already done so.
6.  I will seek to check my heart toward the lost, both before, during and after a preach.
7.  I will seek to do the Lord’s will in all things even if men don’t understand or approve.
8. I will seek to be flexible on words or behaviors for weaker brothers or sisters I am working with.  Rom 14 [new add, 07/08/17]

I would ask the saints to comment below in regards to standards they think we should institute in personal evangelism.   If I find them biblical I will certainly add them to my list.

 My Past Defense and Future Hope

My defense of using harsh and colorful words that offend in the past year has been that curse words come from a heart of cursing toward the sinners.  I think the best and simplest example of this is when we preach that sinners are on their way to hell and they need to turn and live.  On the other hand the sinners will turn around and say, Go to hell you effing stupid preacher.  Do you see the spiritual difference?  Both times the same ‘curse’ word hell is used, but the spirit by which they are said are completely different.

I think the Westboro Baptist Church(consistent Calvinists) actually hate the sinners with God from their view and want to see them destroyed.  So, if you hate the sinners and you are actually cursing them with death, hell, diseases, you need a heart check.

I know, I know, the trite statement that most sinners and all lukewarm ‘Christians’ say about God is, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.”  However, correct thinking about this issue is that God can hate both the sin and the sinner, He is the Creator.  We however, as fellow creatures of mankind, must hate the sin, and love the sinner according to Jesus’ commands and teachings.  However, King David cursed and hated God’s enemies, was this sin?

Ps 109:5-21 Thus they have rewarded me evil for good, And hatred for my love. 6 Set a wicked man over him, And let an accuser stand at his right hand. 7 When he is judged, let him be found guilty, And let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few, And let another take his office. 9 Let his children be fatherless, And his wife a widow.
Psa 109:10 Let his children continually be vagabonds, and beg; Let them seek their bread also from their desolate places. 11 Let the creditor seize all that he has, And let strangers plunder his labor. 12 Let there be none to extend mercy to him, Nor let there be any to favor his fatherless children. 13 Let his posterity be cut off, And in the generation following let their name be blotted out. 14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD, And let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. 15 Let them be continually before the LORD, That He may cut off the memory of them from the earth; 16 Because he did not remember to show mercy, But persecuted the poor and needy man, That he might even slay the broken in heart. 17 As he loved cursing, so let it come to him; As he did not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him. 18 As he clothed himself with cursing as with his garment, So let it enter his body like water, And like oil into his bones. 19 Let it be to him like the garment which covers him, And for a belt with which he girds himself continually. 20 Let this be the LORD’s reward to my accusers, And to those who speak evil against my person. 21 But You, O GOD the Lord, Deal with me for Your name’s sake; Because Your mercy is good, deliver me.

Psa 139:20-24 For they speak against You wickedly; Your enemies take Your name in vain. 21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties; 24 And see if there is any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting.

Is God’s eternal justice demonstrated at the throne of Jesus an act of love or hatred?  Most Christians will sheepishly answer they don’t know or understand how it could be love that God would burn and torment someone forever as Jesus taught in Mark 9:43-48

I do think there may be holiness preachers out there that could be ‘cursing’ sinners from their heart.  An actual desire to see people burn and suffer torment in eternal damnation.  This of course would be ungodly and must be forsaken for any who call themselves holiness preachers.  How do we judge each other on that issue?  Is it the tone, or particular words in particular order, a facial expression, or body language?  It is a heart issue, I think we can all agree so be careful when you judge the heart of another.  One way to be sure is to seek clarification, by asking the person their view.  Do you desire people to go to hell?  Does God desire that?  If God doesn’t want people to burn forever, then shouldn’t we line our hearts up with God’s?  In the future we will all agree that Jesus’ Judgments are righteous and true and we will all say Amen on that day to the everlasting damnation that God will mete out.  But, what about now?

My future hope is in Jesus who died for me and for you on the cross.  My future hope is that everyone who is active in the open air community will come to a civil and peaceable agreement on how we are to conduct ourselves towards; God, the saints, and sinners alike on these issues.  Let us not seek to fracture or divide but to understand and be united in the Holy Ghost.

Php_1:27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,

1Th_2:4 But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.

 

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:4-8)

Self Examination

In this whole arena of words and behaviors that varying holiness open air preachers use, we must ask ourselves and examine ourselves individually to see if our conscience is clear before the Holy God of the Bible.  Are these things sin to me?  Are they sinful to the hearers?  Are they sinful to God most importantly?  Is it my job to police every preacher on words and behaviors?  No, but I am my brother’s keeper.  If I am faithful to God I will want to keep the dialog open that we may refresh each other with the truth of what we think God has taught on these matters.  I would like to submit Rom 14 as a standard for those areas that we find to be doubtful.

Ephesians 5:4– neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Course jesting– greek word Eutrapelia: scurrility, ribaldry, low jesting

Ribaldry– mean, vulgar language; chiefly, obscene language

Vulgar– mean, rustic, rude, low, unrefined, pertaining to the common unlettered people

Obscene– offensive to chastity and delicacy; impure; expressing or presenting to the mind or view something which delicacy, purity and decency forbid

All of the above could certainly be subjective so we need to seek the Holy Ghost to ensure that we are not offending Him in any way with our preaching and ministry.  In my limited experiences I have found that being immersed in the filthy language and behaviors of sinners tends to cause us to harden our hearts toward them.  Rejection after rejection, repeating the wisdom from the Bible over and again can be very frustrating to say the least.  This is why we are called to long suffer brethren, this a a major fruit of the Holy Ghost.  Jesus was perfected in His sufferings.  Jesus was perfected?  Yes, He was completed by it, and we are called to suffer with Him.  Don’t you know how grieved He is by all the wicked things that you and I see in the open air?  This is just the tip of the iceberg of reality!  We see flashes of peoples lives, God sees everything!

Here is some good context for the above verse on course talk and jesting:

Eph 5:5-13 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

So here we see a list of people that will be condemned to God’s wrath, warning not to be a part of that, walk in the light as the Spirit leads, proving it.  Having no fellowship with these bad fruits of sin and reproving that!  Here is the real exciting part, it’s a shame to speak of these things of what sinners do in the dark, but the reproving of that is shown by the Holy Ghost reproving from within us and out of our mouths!

 Prov 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

2 Timothy 2:23-25 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

2 Tim 4:2-5 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

2 Timothy 2:14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.

1 Corinthians 5:11– But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Railer- One who scoffs, insults, censures or reproaches with opprobrious language.

Opprobrious– Reproachful and contemptuous language.

Here is where Jesus upbraided:

Mat 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Strong’s 3679 ὀνειδέζω oneidezō on-i-did’-zo
From G3681; to defame, that is, rail at, chide, taunt: – cast in teeth, (suffer) reproach, revile, upbraid.
Total KJV occurrences: 10

G3679 ὀνειδέζω oneide
1) to reproach, upbraid, revile
1a) of deserved reproachzō
Thayer Definition:vile
1b) of undeserved reproach, to reed
1c) to upbraid, cast (favours receiv
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s N) in one’s teeth
Part of Speech: verbumber: from G3681
Citing in TDNT: 5:239, 693

So here we see our Savior exampling what to do to whole cities and even his closest disciples. But, these standard setting pontificating popes of the new open air movement know better than Jesus.  I do think that preachers can give an undeserved upbraiding, railing, or reproach to someone under their preaching.   This would be the danger for us all.  If we do so, we should immediately humble ourselves and ask to be forgiven.  But, to lump all rebukes, railings, and upbraidings under sin is to then to accuse Jesus of sin.  So, just as there could be unholy rebukes, there could be holy rebukes as well.  Adam LaCroix who has done a very thoughtful but erroneous teaching on this matter is spreading division and discord once again in the open air community.

 

I found this video of Br. Ruben Israel to be quite refreshing and challenging at the same time.  Warning, many offensive terms from the Holy Bible taught in this teaching.  If the German derivative of poo poo offends you, then you may not want to watch.

Here is a link to a document listing all of the verses Ruben uses in this teaching:

HARSH WORDS DOCUMENT

I have preached with Br. Ruben on some occasions and found he is one of the most humble men I know.  He has never used this sh$t word in his preaching while I have been with him.  I don’t think he uses it as a common term.  But, he makes a good point about the way the language is spoken and understood both in ours and different eras.  What do people understand and what language do they use, that we are preaching to?  Are we ashamed that God has spoken these harsh words through the prophets?  Was God too unloving and harsh with the wicked whore of Israel who had trampled His grace over and over again? 

Eph 4:29-32 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth,

1 Peter 3:8-11– 8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

 Colossians 4:5 Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

Colorful Behaviors in the Open Air

What can and can’t we do as we preach to grab the attention of those who are lulled into the sin sick world in which we live?  This era is very difficult as the open air preacher battles; iphones, mp4 players with ear buds, tablets, computers, tv, music most of which is filled with gross sin which the carnal mind finds so attractive.   As Bro Jesse Morrell wrote of years ago, our preaching must be direct and pointy to the individual concerning their sin.  Granted their sin is a shame to speak of, yet we must uncover it and reprove it in order for their mind and heart to become concerned about their eternal destiny. This reality which will happen if they don’t repent often causes a great uproar to the listeners as they have never heard such things from any pastor or ‘Christian’ as they have experience them in our day.  Some will try and use Eph 5:4 in regards to coarse jesting as an evidence that some preachers go too far in their attention grabbing and sin.  But, again as I explained earlier keep reading the whole passage.  Telling dirty jokes to have ‘fun’ with the sinner or enjoy the thoughts of the sin described are not a motive of any open air preacher I know!  It is as Bro Jed has explained, “…a sinner is like a nice shiny brand new aluminum trashcan, looks good on the outside.  But, we want to rip the lid off of that vessel and dump all the filthy rotten contents out on the ground for all to see!” [not quoted from original source]

This is a great video on many fronts from Bro Jed Smock and Company.  It is challenging, edifying, and worthy of examination.  I warn you, you will find many extraordinary behaviors that most will criticize without ever having preached in the open air themselves.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

Titus 1:9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.

Titus 3:2-3 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Proverbs 12:17-There is one who speaks like the piercings of a sword,  But the tongue of the wise promotes health.

Proverbs 16:24 Pleasant words are like a honeycomb, Sweetness to the soul and health to the bones.

Filthy Talk by Bro Cope

 

Proverbs 15:1– A soft answer turns away wrath,  But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Proverbs 18:23– The poor man uses entreaties, But the rich answers roughly.

Proverbs 20:3– It is honorable for a man to stop striving, Since any fool can start a quarrel.

Proverbs 25:15– By long forbearance a ruler is persuaded, and a gentle tongue breaks a bone.

Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.

In finality, this is just a good proverb to meditate on…

Proverbs 22:11– He who loves purity of heart And has grace on his lips, The king will be his friend.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Great video from Bro Jesse Morrell, a highly seasoned and excellent preacher of God’s Word, enjoy!

 

 

Lastly, my thoughts are for those of you who are lukewarm in this era, and thus are not even qualified to bring an accusation against those who are actively seeking those that are lost in sin.  Do you believe that Jesus will turn you away with the MOST judgement, because you knew what was right but weren’t willing to obey Him?   If you are not being a witness for Jesus, shame on you!  Repent of not loving Jesus and the lost.  Get from behind your keyboard and speak the truths of the Bible to those in darkness and sin.

May God bless you all as you seek Him for your standards of language and behaviors as you preach the truths of Jesus to a lost and dying world.

 

Typical hypocritical ‘preacher’ from behind his cowardly keyboard trying to rebuke others for that which they would not do, even according to their own standard.