It seems often when it comes to the multitudes of varying doctrines that have infiltrated into Christianity, it makes you ponder, “Who holds the keys to good and enduring doctrine that we should learn and obey?”. I see Facebook ‘debates’ of brethren who are involved in heated disputes that many times lead to misunderstandings and breaks in relations. This should never be among Christians. Do any of us have complete agreement on what the Lord hath said? Are doctrines important? Emphatically I say, “Yes and it’s salvational!” Herein lies my proof from the Bible.
1 Tim 4:16 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
So, doctrine is obviously salvational, but did Paul just mean the Gospel or any doctrine that might be found in Scripture? We simply need to back up to vs 11 to find out:
1 Tim 4:11-15
These things command and teach. 12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. 13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
In vs 13 we see, “…to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.” So, it should be generally applied to all Scripture and any doctrine that we are taught of the Holy Ghost. Many will not agree with this interpretation but what else could it mean? Keep in mind that they primarily were using the OT to teach from.
Okay, with all the schisms, shunning, mistreatment of brethren over doctrine, why is this so important? Because we are supposed to love each other as verse 12 describes. If one is in error, he needs to be shown the error from Scripture. Jam 5:19-20 Is it an easy task to lovingly deal with others that are in contradiction to your understanding? No, but there is nothing that is precious that is easy to obtain.
Well if cosmology is described in the Bible, why wouldn’t it be a doctrine that all Christendom seek to understand and explain? Mostly what I hear from brethren is, “Why does it matter?”.
How do we know which would be the true doctrine? Well, the Holy Ghost teaching each of us individually as we seek understanding on any particular subject.
John 14:26-31
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Now, part of the problem is that more mature Christians who have learned over the years from the Holy Ghost and experiences what are good interpretations, now seek to teach those doctrines to others. The seasoned believers who have endured spiritual battles, spent much time in study and meditation interact with others who have or have not made the same investment. Or, possibly they inverse is true regarding the persons involved. This leads to a conflict in views that, more often than not, will bring unnecessary divisions because of miscommunication, misunderstandings, and lack of suffering. These have been real life experiences for me over the course of 22 years and more recently when a dear brother of mine and I have come into hard conflict and seemingly a spiritual impasse that had brought division. I certainly do not think either of us desired that. Praise God, we have worked through our misunderstandings and are able to call each other brother.
Another way of telling if a doctrine we hold to is true, is to bring it before others for them to examine to see if they find truth therein. This would not be seeking to have some special secret doctrine which a person holds to rule over you. But, a plain and public reading and understanding that all can nod their heads in agreement with…eventually.
2 Pet 1:20 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
I say eventually because learning new things take time. I think every sincere Christian seeks to understand from above by the Holy Ghost. This can be difficult, painful, and very humiliating, especially if we are the ones who need to adjust our thinking or ideology. Part of the process of sharing doctrines are the ideas that God’s Word is as He describes.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Prov 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Eph 6:17-18 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Every good soldier in warfare knows very well that in training he will become better in battle. Do you train in study, prayer, armor bearing, shield and sword wielding? Is it fun getting smacked around by another Christian in training? No, but if the hearts are right with God and each other, who better to ready ourselves with for the real spiritual battle that lies at our doorstep? Do you not know that the Roman legions perhaps the greatest natural army that ever existed were trained by each other first, long before they entered into an actual battlefield?
2 Tim 2:3-5 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
So, when any man challenges a doctrine you are promoting and believe, often he will give you the pitfall challenge, “Do you mean if I don’t believe this I am not saved?” or maybe something like, “Is this salvational or non-salvational?”
1 Cor 10:12-13 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
I use this pitfall example metaphorically as an example what I believe is a spiritual bomb when this question is asked to challenge doctrines that are opposed.
Certainly, some doctrines don’t fall under the heading essential, important, or salvational so it shouldn’t matter, right?
My response is all doctrines from Scripture are important and matter, period. I think if there were exceptions to this idea they would have been listed by the Apostle Paul. I suppose this question of, “Salvational or Non” to be a trap of the devil to bring divisions, animosities of all sorts between believers.
Phil 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Each of us individually need to work out our own salvation. Do I care about my brother’s soul? Of course, but I can’t do his work for his salvation for him. But, I can do everything possible to ensure whatever I am teaching to be clear, concise, and biblical. This will edify the body of Christ and strengthen us together to go out into the harvest field together.
This naturally leads me back to the point of this article. Why do we ask each other this stumbling question, “Is this doctrine salvational or not?”. It automatically assumes conflict or denial in this spiritually loaded question.
On the first hand, if you reply it’s salvational and they don’t agree with the doctrine, you may have condemned them for:
1. ignorance
2. maturity
3. contrary understanding or experience
4. possible inability to comprehend naturally/spiritually
5. poor listening/speaking skills
6. stumbling of a brother.
…and there are other many possibilities.
On the second hand, if you say it’s not a salvational issue you have:
1. lessened the importance of God’s Word and His doctrines
2. reduced or eliminated the urgency for the theological opponent to change his mind about the ideology.
3. You have not been faithful to communicate spiritual warnings God has placed in His Word out of ‘respect’ for the person.
4. stumbled a brother who is unrighteously condemning your biblical view.
…and there are other many possibilities.
I think the solutions that I am attempted to communicate regarding our conflict can help many to be able to be unified in the Holy Spirit and yet really examine doctrines openly without fear of reprisals, shunning, name calling, or other ad hominem attacks as we grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Rom 14:7-12 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God
So, if we seek to love our brothers, we will not judge them as condemned eternally. Especially for those that hold doctrines that oppose our current beliefs. I know many will balk at that idea. Each saint of God will be judged individually before all. At the same time, we should seek to remove stumbling blocks as Paul did.
I definitely still believe we should test all things including doctrine. Remember previously, I agreed with God’s Word that doctrine is essential to the salvation of one’s soul, and those that hear us. 1 Tim 4:16 If I am convinced of a doctrine that the Lord has pressed upon me to teach/preach then I must out of duty to Him, the saints, and the lost do so. Likewise each of you have the same duty to not hold back what the Lord has given you toward me and everyone else. The neglect of doing these ideas aforementioned is one of the deep roots of the apostate ‘church’. At the same time God has communicated let not many among you teach, as we would give a stricter or harsher judgment. Much responsibility comes with the territory of being a Christian ‘teacher’ at whatever level.
Some of my views which involve cosmological doctrines from the Bible, were the source of our previously mentioned hard dispute. I have listed an in-exhaustive nine point list from the thread in footnote below.
Is Cosmology important? Of course, this area of knowledge in both Christendom and the secular world guides either to or away from the Creator. As an open air preacher of the Gospel I share this point over and again that God’s creation points to himself as God. Kind of like the building/builder, painting/painter ideas which show intelligent design points back to their creator. I’ve been shocked to hear holiness open air preachers profess that they don’t believe cosmology is important as a doctrine. What? If it’s important to use when preaching to the lost, it surely must be important for the brethren to examine it together and publicly.
Is this study/ideology in Christendom important? Is it essential or necessary for the salvation of my soul or others? Of course! Do I mean in this exact moment for you to be considered saved? No, I mean it is essential to study these doctrines as we work out our own faith in maturity and understanding from the Holy Ghost as we all walk down this narrow and difficult way. As many Christian geocentrists and flat earthers say, “Research it yourself.” To re-search is to search it out again.
If GC and FE are true then who would not want this information to be understood and obeyed by Christians? The answer of course is the father of all lies, the devil. I know his strategy is to: ruin human perspective of what God created so people won’t draw near to God through it, create doctrines which unbelievers may mock Christian ideology, kill and destroy souls that they may not be saved. Ironically, the very things that sinners mock regarding God’s creation are the very forensic evidence which He will eternally condemn them with. Do you see why cosmology is important now?
Rom 1:19-20 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
With all the misinformation from every direction on these issues you’d think a spiritual atomic bomb went off when someone talks about cosmology from the old paths, ie geocentricity or Hebraic cosmology. ….I think people are having a worldwide awakening to the idea of ‘truth’, and seeking that. If they are sincere they will find Jesus, who is the truth, the way, and the life. John 14:6
We see Job’s complaining against God brings a very strong scourging from God unto Job in chapters 38-39 regarding His cosmogony.
Then the Lord answered Job – This speech is addressed particularly to Job, …, because he had indulged in language of murmuring and complaint. God designed to bring him to a proper state of mind before he appeared openly for his vindication. -Albert Barnes Notes on Job
Job 38:1-6 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Matt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This passage begs the question about the stars falling to earth. Of course, the natural scientists don’t believe this, but do you? Is this simply poetry, simile, or something else? What’s your interpretation? Please feel free to comment below the blog post with thoughts.
SUMMARY OF MY CONCLUSIONS
Doctrine is important and salvational to ourselves and those that hear us. 1 Tim 4:16
We have a duty to share our doctrines with each other in love. 1 Tim 4:12
The Holy Ghost is the primary teacher for every Christian. John 14:26
We know the Holy Ghost teaches us truth. Titus 1:2
Scripture must be publicly taught and understood. 2 Pet 1:20
God’s Word is a spiritual sword. We must train with each other before battle.
Work out your own salvation. Phil 2:12
Stay out of Jesus’ judgment seat. Rom 14:7-12
Cosmology is important to God Gen 1, Job 38-39, Rom 1:19-20, Matt 24
Some of my cosmological views from the Bible, were the source of our previously mentioned hard dispute. After my cosmological opponent laid out his beliefs I used his outline and inserted my understandings. Here is how it went on FB.
“Since some religious ‘spirits’ have been stirred up by this post, I want to clarify some things and explain my position fully in regards to flat earth.
1. I 100% believe the earth is generally flat as evidenced by the oceans and water always seeks level which creates a horizon which is horizontal. I believe the earth is the center of the universe, stationary and immovable as God’s Word plainly states. I say all of this with no reservations whatsoever.
2. I have no issue whatsoever if someone chooses to believe the earth is rotund, oblate, pear shaped, or otherwise. Nor do I condemn those that believe helioentricity. However, I believe that the belief in the scientism and aforementioned doctrines to be anti-cogent, illogical, and scientifically unsound. But, don’t expect me to shut up because you don’t agree with what I believe by faith.
3. The bible is not silent on the cosmology of God’s creation.
4. I believe that anyone who makes cosmology of no importance for careful examination is wrong. Calling me a heretic hurts my feelings but I’ll get over it.
5. For some, the belief in the ‘science’ they have been taught in public school at every level has become an idol.
6. I think ribbing or joking about ideas in good fun to be okay. But, we are talking about God’s cosmogeny and it is no laughing matter to belittle what He hath said.
7. Accusing someone of being a heretic because they do not believe in heliocentrism or geocentrism or a particular shape of the world as we know it, is slander and sinful.
8. I believe that taking clear statements in God’s word to be figurative, simile, metaphor, or poetic could very well lead to major errors in understanding of God’s Word, will, and creation.
9. I believe the devils influenced and started the modern ideas of the ‘scientific’ heliocentric theory to discredit God and His Word.”
Lastly, “Do I think this is salvational or non salvific?” For me, emphatically yes! Because I have studied it thoroughly for four years and can not deny what God has taught in His Word. To do so would blaspheme the Holy Ghost who taught me these things. What about you? Have you even bothered to see if these things are so from the Bible? Or have you shrugged it off and thought, “Why is this important?” and gone back to sleep on the issues. If you have gotten this far into this blog, may I interest you in checking our our Confronting the Cosmogony page? Thank you and God bless you.
As a navigator in the U.S. Navy, retiring after 21 years it took me over four years of regular and sometimes very intense seasons of study to answer enough questions for myself to come to the cosmological view of geocentricity and the flat earth domed model of our ‘earth’ that I would actually discuss and promote these things publicly.
Ship Captains and First Mates have wrestled through hundreds of years of voyaging and the two worst areas to sail are the northern and southerly latitudes. Anything above or below the Arctic or Antarctic Circles were filled with horrifying stories of men and ship’s inexplicably and tragically lost. It is now my belief that God has topographically, environmentally, and naturally hindered the approaches to the ‘north pole’ or the icy edge of the ‘southern’ continent. Check the following reading I am currently studying for information about these relatively modern mariners struggles in the southerly latitudes especially.
Obviously, the globe model presents the traveler with a significantly different configuration than does the flat earth model, particularly in the so-called “southern hemisphere.” The discrepancy between the reality of a flat earth and the myth of a south seas.
Samuel Rowbotham, in his book Zetetic Astronomy, explains the dangers of the false charts based upon a globe model: In the southern hemisphere, navigators to India have often fancied themselves east of the Cape when still west, and have been driven ashore on the African coast, which, according to their reckoning, lay behind them. This misfortune happened to a fine frigate, the Challenger, in 1845.405 How came Her Majesty’s Ship Conqueror, to be lost? How have so many other noble vessels, perfectly sound, perfectly manned, perfectly navigated, been wrecked in calm weather, not only in a dark night, or in a fog, but in broad daylight and sunshine–in the former case upon the coasts, in the latter, upon sunken rocks–from being ‘out of reckoning,’ under circumstances which until now, have baffled every satisfactory explanation.406 Rowbotham explains how the British ship Challenger completed the circuit of the southern region, indirectly, to be sure, circumnavigating Antarctica. The approximate circumference of Antarctica is supposed to be approximately 14,460 statute miles on the globular earth model. However, the Challenger spent three years and traversed nearly 69,000 miles. That is a distance that would have allowed the ship to circle Antarctica over 4 times if the earth were in fact a globe. The 69,000 mile long journey around the circumference of the earth that is Antarctica, however, is perfectly explained by a flat earth.
Rowbotham quotes from voyagers, who found that their charts, which used a globular earth model, almost always put them off course in the south seas. “We found ourselves every day from 12 to 16 miles by observation in advance of our reckoning.” Another southern seafarer stated: “By our observations at noon we found ourselves 58 miles to the eastward of our reckoning in two days.” The spherical earth charts did not account for the expanse of distance between the lines of longitude the further south one travels on a flat earth. Consequently, the mariners’ true position on the earth, determined by using celestial navigation and a chronometer, was found to be off by several degrees from the position on the chart that was plotted using dead reckoning. One mariner detailed the distance that the erroneous charts, which assumed a globular earth, put them off course in the south seas. February 11th, 1822, at noon, in latitude 65.53. S. our chronometers gave 44 miles more westing than the log in three days. On 22nd of April (1822), in latitude 54.16. S. our longitude by chronometers was 46.49, and by D.R. (dead reckoning)47°11´: On 2nd May (1822), at noon, in latitude 53.46. S., our longitude by chronometers was 59° 27´, and by D.R. 61° 6´. October 14th, in latitude 58.6, longitude by chronometers 62° 46´, by account 65° 24´. In latitude 59.7. S., longitude by chronometers was 63°28´, by account 66°42´. In latitude 61.49. S., longitude by chronometers was 61° 53´, by account 66° 38´.
The skippers of the ships in the south seas could only guess that the discrepancies between their dead reckoning plotted on their charts and their true positions, confirmed by precise chronometers and sextants, was due to the currents. Rowbotham explains, however, that currents could not possibly account for the navigation errors, because the errors in the navigation were manifested regardless of whether the ships were traveling east or west. The commander of the United States exploring expedition, Lieutenant Wilkes, in his narrative, says that in less than 18 hours he was 20 miles to the east of his reckoning in latitude 54° 20´ S. He gives other instances of the same phenomenon, and, in common with almost all other navigators and writers on the subject, attributes the differences between actual observation and theory to currents, the velocity of which, at latitude 57° 15´ S., amounted to 20 miles a day. The commanders of these various expeditions were, of course, with their education and beliefin the earth’s rotundity, unable to conceive of any other cause for the differences between log and chronometer results than the existence of currents. But one simple fact is entirely fatal to such an explanation, viz., that when the route taken is east or west the same results are experienced. The water of the southern region cannot be running in two opposite directions at the same time; and hence, although various local and variable currents have been noticed, they cannot be shown to be the cause of the discrepancies so generally observed in high southern latitudes between time and log results. The conclusion is one of necessity–is forced upon us by the sum of the evidence collected that the degrees of longitude in any given southern latitude are larger than the degrees in any latitude nearer to the northern centre; thus proving the already more than sufficiently demonstrated fact that the earth is a plane, having a northern centre, in relation to which degrees of latitude are are diverging lines, continually increasing in their distance from each other as they are prolonged towards the great glacial southern circumference.
Conclusions by Br. John McGlone
In closing: 1. Admiral Byrd’s adventures into the Antarctica revealed the immensity and impossibility of actually confirming the globe. 2. The forensic evidence of the edge of our world has forced the nations of the earth to an inclusive treaty that everyone has kept! 3. The old school mariners had the same problem modern ones do in higher latitudes especially the southerly 4. The actual distance to circle the ‘continent of Antarctica’, or more accurately circle the perimeter of the edge, must be greater than approximately 70.000 nautical miles. 5. Because I don’t believe we have even ventured close to where the heavenly firmament [dome] meets the edge of the terra firma we can’t really give an exact measure of the distance in point four. 6. God has set these limits upon mankind to point them to Himself. Topographic, extreme weather temperatures, pressures, storms, hardness of the firmaments, etc also prevent us from venturing beyond our terrestrial environ. 7. All of this is confirmed by natural and spiritual evidences in our own experiences, in Holy writ, and extrabiblical literature.
Finally, IF the edge of the FE = ~70,000 nautical miles / π or 3.14 = ~ 22,293 nm This is very close to the calculated circumference of the ‘globe’ by the pythagorean theorum and is confirmed by actual distances from the center or ‘north’ pole and the edge of the antarctic continent or rim. From 90°N the north pole or center pole of the earth to the equator = 5400 nm from the equator to 90°S or the edge of the face of the earth = 5400 nm. So, 5400 nm X 4 quadrants = 21,600 nm. Stop the presses this must mean we live on a globe right? Wrong. The pi presumes a circle in our calculation but for global believers they presume a 3D globe. But, FE’rs don’t presume a pancake, but a structure as the Bible describes with foundations, pillars, the deep etc. If you go to google earth you will see how they can jump between 2D & 3D with the click of a button, let that sink in for a few minutes….
I had a friend recently share with me a passage from the book of Hebrews which contradicted my assertions about cosmology that there are no other ‘planets’ or ‘worlds’ beside the earth. I simply believe they are stars in the firmament. I believe this earth is the centerpiece of creation according to the Scripture. Here is that verse that sent me seeking more truth about cosmology from God’s Word.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
In the Strong’s we see the KJV translate worlds or Aion G165 in the following manner: ever (71x), world (38x), never (with G3364) (with G1519) (with G3588) (6x), evermore (4x), age (2x), eternal (2x), miscellaneous (5x).
αἰώνaiṓn, ahee-ohn’; from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end).
Aion or Eon is tantamount to ages, times or epochs periods or seasons, yet world is secondarily described as well.
My cosmological view of the heavenlies is as follows:
1. God made daylight and nightlight and divided them on the first day before the Sun, Moon, and stars were made on the fourth day. Gen 1:3-5
2. the heavenly firmament which divided the waters from the waters. (hardened enclosed dome) Gen 1:6-8 Points 3-5 are supported by Gen 1:14-18 created on the fourth day of creation after day and night light were created on day one. Doesn’t this fact shock you as a Christian?
3. the Sun & Moon are both within the firmament are great lights.
4. all the stars are named luminaries by the Bible
5. the wandering stars to include the Sun, Moon, and Earth are misnamed as ‘planets’ by the heretical astronomy science falsely called of this age.
6. the counter rotating star trails we see in the heavenlies are possibly described in Ezekiel’s wheel as God sits upon his throne above the circle of the earth.
1 Tim 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
Isaiah 40:21-22 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Ezekiel 1:15-22 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. 19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds
To answer my friends original objection about more than one world, we see the Apostle Matthew answer of two worlds, plurality.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
I am sure we all believe this idea of the world now and the one to come, no matter what our cosmological view. The epoch or era to come the New Jerusalem come down from heaven is a new world. Also, after that reign God will loose Satan from the abyss to rise up one last time before He will completely destroy him and the armies raised up against God. Then the everlasting Kingdom or last and infinite epoch or world would then be established in which Jesus will rule and reign with the saints of God forever and ever, amen.
Be sure to watch the great videos, very intriguing. God bless you.
Comparing Relative Motion Between Helio vs. GeoCentric Models
By Rob Skiba with introduction by John McGlone
INTRODUCTION
I have been pondering these perplexing issues of flat earth, geocentric views for over a year now. I think the geocentricity of the earth is clearly laid out in the Bible and is still mathematically valid according to the Ptolemaic model. This of course, then leads to the other main point which is brought into question by the first argument which is the shape of the earth; sphere, flat, oval, orb, or what? If geocentricity is true then all other ‘scientific’ assertions about the origins of the universe come into question. From a Christian worldview two major ‘scientific’ views are already rejected that is Darwinistic evolutionary theory, and the big bang theory. Christendom has no problem rejecting those things and being called fools for doing so as the evidence is so clear within our reach. Flat earthers are always challenged to send a rocket up and take videos and pictures which would prove the view. Of course, they can’t afford to do so nor do most have the technical know how to get it done. I have reposted a primary writing of Rob Skiva, it is his hard work that caused me to pause at the plethora of Scripture he uses to support his arguments and conclusions. This same stumping of my intellect happened when I first read and then believed Charlie Kennon’s article on geocentricity, which is linked HERE. DISCLAIMER: I am not a flat earther, simply investigating the claims of the worldview. I was a member of the U.S. Navy as a QMC(SW) Chief Quartermaster, which is a job specialty in navigation. I have been to both hemispheres in every major ocean of the world. I used ‘spherical’ trigonometry for many years to safely navigate multi billion dollar warships all over the planet.
A warning from me, Rob Skiva, the primary author here does not believe the trinity
ALLOWING THE BIBLE TO SPEAK FOR ITSELF by Rob Skiva
Below are a number of Bible verses without commentary. Unless otherwise noted, all of the Scriptures are taken from the KJV. Pretending you have never heard of a globe or even a flat earth before, let’s just allow the Bible to speak for itself. Read them over a couple of times, asking the Holy Spirit to reveal to you what they mean. Without forcing an interpretation based on preconceived notions, meditate on them and ask yourself, “What is the Bible really showing me concerning the nature of the heavens, the earth, the sun, moon and stars?” Then, in the next section after this one, I will give my commentary on these Scriptures, revealing what I believe they are saying to me.
The Scriptures below are arranged by topics in order to set the stage for what will follow. I have placed the book of Job before Genesis as many (if not most) scholars believe it is the oldest book of the Bible. And I have also emphasized words in bold for us to consider as we read. This is by no means an exhaustive list of Scripture. It is essentially just a first run, which I will continue to add to as I find more in the future.
Scriptures concerning the nature of the heavens/sky above and their relationship to the earth:
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.
Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmamentHeaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Psalm 104:
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
Amos 9:6 (NASB) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavensAnd has foundedHis vaulted dome over the earth,
He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Scriptures concerning the nature of the earth below the firmament:
Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Genesis 1:
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.
2 Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.
1 Chronicles 16:30Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96: 9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.
Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psalm 104:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. 6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psalm 136:
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever. Proverbs 8:
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.
Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.
Scriptures concerning the nature of the sun, moon and stars:
Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Psalms 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
Psalm 136:
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Joshua 10:13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isaiah 38:8Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
Habakkuk 3:11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
Again, applying no preconceived notions upon the text, how do you imagine a newcomer to the Scriptures would view the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars just based on what you’ve read here?
THE BIBLE AND THE STILL FLAT EARTH
If I were to be perfectly honest here, I’d have to say that I do not get a spherical globe, spinning around in an endless void of space from my reading of the above Scriptures. The Bible seems to be telling us, in no uncertain terms, that we live on a still (as in stationary), flat, enclosed earth. The following explains why I believe this way.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
This is an introductory statement. It establishes the fact that Elohim is the creator of everything. From there, the text goes on to describe how He did it:
2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Out of nowhere we have water. We never see anything about it being created. It’s just there as a result of the opening statement and it is “deep.” The Hebrew word “heaven” is shamyim. The word for water is, mayim. Thus it would appear that water and heaven have some sort of connection to one another right from the start. After the creation of “light” as day and the declaration that “dark” is night, a “firmament” appears to separate the mayim waters above from the mayim waters below. The word for “firmament” is raqia. This is where things start to get interesting. Note how Brown-Drive-Briggs defines it:
There is a principle of Biblical hermeneutics known as the “Law of First Mention” (or some derivation of that), which states that you look at how a word or concept is first introduced and then consider how it is understood and used elsewhere in light of that first use. The website, biblicalresearch.info describes this law as follows:
The fourth rule of interpretation is THE LAW OF FIRST MENTION.
The meaning of the law of First Mention: The Law of First Mention may be said to be the principle that requires one to go to that portion of the Scriptures where a doctrine is mentioned for the first time and to study the first occurrence of the same in order to get the fundamental inherent meaning of that doctrine.
When this law is applied the simple precedes the complex.
A history of the development of anything will show that it sprang from something in the very simplest form (for example the steamship; airplane; automobile)
In the Scriptures the growth and development of ideas and doctrine might be illustrated by some simple word.
Throughout the history of a term it may have increased its meaning and undergone certain changes, yet the basic, original, fundamental thought is seldom lost.
The fundamental concept usually controls or is dominant in coloring every shade of idea expressed by a term in its current usage
The law of first mention may be said to be the principle that requires one to go to that portion of the Scriptures where a doctrine is mentioned for the first time and to study the first occurrence of the same in order to get the fundamental inherent meaning of that doctrine. When we thus see the first appearance, which is usually in the simplest form, we can then examine the doctrine in other portions of the Word that were given later. We shall see that the fundamental concept in the first occurrence remains dominant as a rule, and colors all later additions to that doctrine. In view of this fact, it becomes imperative that we understand the law of first mention.
With this in mind, in Genesis 1, we have a description of something that would become the sky overhead. But Genesis is not the first Holy Spirit inspired book of Scripture. Job is. Therefore, regarding the sky, let’s consider how the oldest book of the Bible describes it:
Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
If Job is in fact the oldest book, then Genesis doesn’t establish the law of first mention, Job does. Either way, you end up with the same conclusion, backed by the two “beginning” books of the Bible. Genesis begins the Torah, which is the foundation of our whole Bible. Job, being the oldest written text in the Bible fully supports what we see in Genesis. But in Job, we see that the sky is spread out like a molten looking glass, or as other translations render it a cast metal (bronze) mirror:
So much for the notion that the sky/heaven above us consists of just gaseous air. We apparently have a hard canopy somewhere, very high above us. OK. Let’s keep testing that idea. Why does it need to be so hardened?
Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
So, YHWH’s throne sits on top of the firmament, which is described as being cast like a metal mirror! The idea of YHWH’s throne being atop the “firmament” is not unusual:
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
In a Facebook post I quoted the above as sort of a joke asking, What kind of “footstool” spins around 1,000 mph, while running away at 67,000 mph? YHWH’s “throne” sounds like a ride at Disney World. He must get really dizzy. Either that, or maybe the Earth is His treadmill and they just didn’t know how to describe that in Isaiah’s day? 🙂 I originally said that as a joke, but now I am not so sure it is. Remember, we are reading the Scriptures without preconceived notions. The prophets seem to be telling us – point-blank – that YHWH’s throne sits atop the firmament, which would thus have His feet planted on the hard canopy that surrounds the earth. While the firmament is not technically the “earth” as in the mass upon which land and sea are found, the firmament is part of the system that makes the earth what it is.This brings us to the Scripture many have tried to use concerning the shape of the earth:
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
In the past, I have used this same verse to defend the globe idea of the earth myself. But there is a difference between a circle and a globe/sphere/ball. An ice-skating rink is a circle. We skate on it, going round and round, but never, up, over and around. It is not a sphere. It is an enclosure in the shape of a circle. So also it would appear that the Earth is. Check out the Septuagint’s version of this same verse:
Isaiah 40:22 (LXX) [It is] he that comprehends the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants in it are as grasshoppers; he that set up the heaven as a chamber, and stretched [it] out as a tent to dwell in:
Without trying to literally force a globe onto this text, it describes a circular earth that has a heaven (beaten metallic expanse) set up over it as a “chamber,” which is stretched out like a “tent” for us to dwell in. This is describing an enclosed system! How enclosed is it? Let’s go back to Genesis…
Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Please note that the sun, moon and stars are placed inside the enclosed “firmament.” Now, as a believer in the globe model my whole life and a strong advocate for the Creation account of our origins, I have always talked a lot about the firmament as sort of an “ice canopy” that surrounded the Earth before the Flood. Many times, I have referred to the wonderful work of Dr. Carl Baugh and Kent Hovind among others to support that view. But, I subscribed to their model, because like them, I have always believed in the globe representation of the Earth floating in space. See what I’ve done there? I’ve forced my own preconceived ideas onto the text as a result of listening to great men of God who have done the same thing. But that’s not what Moses wrote! He didn’t say God placed the sun, moon and stars around the Earth. He said YHWH placed those things in the firmament that was dividing the waters above from the waters below.
Just to be sure, let’s go back and read Genesis 1, verses 1 through 18 to keep the continuity clear:
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament {that divided the waters} Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
In verses 7 & 8, we see that essentially the “pocket of air,” which is dividing water above from water below is called “Heaven.” Verse 9 is talking about stuff under that heaven, which would become the land, vegetation and seas. This is all inside the dome! Verse 14 never takes us outside of that setting. Nor does the rest of the chapter. The entire chapter from verse 8 forward is “under the dome”! I never noticed that before, because I wasn’t looking for it. But there it is. Plain as day… if not imposing preconceived notions upon the text.
Indeed, this “under the dome” view of the earth was not foreign to the ancients. Many ancient cultures had some variation of this general view of the earth:
The Biblical cosmology is never explicitly stated, so it must be pieced together from scattered passages. The Bible is a composite work, so there is no a priori reason why the cosmology assumed by its various writers should be relatively consistent, but it is. The Bible is, from Genesis to Revelation, a flat-earth book.
This is hardly surprising. As neighbors, the ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.
The Babylonian universe was shaped like a modern domed stadium. The Babylonians considered the earth essentially flat, with a continental mass surrounded by ocean. The vault of the sky was a physical object resting upon the ocean’s waters (and perhaps also upon pillars). Sweet (salt-free) waters below the Earth sometimes manifest themselves as springs. The Egyptian universe was also enclosed, but it was rectangular instead of round. Indeed, it was shaped much like an old-fashioned steamer trunk. (The Egyptians pictured the goddess Nut stretched across the sky as the enclosing dome.) What was the Hebrew view of the universe?
The Order of Creation
The Genesis creation story provides the first key to the Hebrew cosmology. The order of creation makes no sense from a conventional perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth viewpoint. The earth was created on the first day, and it was “without form and void (Genesis 1:2).” On the second day, a vault the “firmament” of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed “in” (not “above”) the vault.
The Vault of Heaven
The vault of heaven is a crucial concept. The word “firmament” appears in the King James version of the Old Testament 17 times, and in each case it is translated from the Hebrew word raqiya, which meant the visible vault of the sky. The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?”
Elihu’s question shows that the Hebrews considered the vault of heaven a solid, physical object. Such a large dome would be a tremendous feat of engineering. The Hebrews (and supposedly Yahweh Himself) considered it exactly that, and this point is hammered home by five scriptures:
Job 9:8, “…who by himself spread out the heavens [shamayim]…”
Psalm 19:1, “The heavens [shamayim] tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven [raqiya] reveals his handiwork.”
Psalm 102:25, “…the heavens [shamayim] were thy handiwork.”
Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine…”
Isaiah 48:13, “…with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]…”
If these verses are about a mere illusion of a vault, they are surely much ado about nothing.Shamayim comes from shameh, a root meaning to be lofty. It literally means the sky. Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God “sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth [chuwg], whose inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the skies [shamayim] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in…[Isaiah 40:22].” Chuwg literally means “circle” or “encompassed.” By extension, it can mean roundness, as in a rounded dome or vault. Job 22:14 says God “walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg].” In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk. Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation. In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as grasshoppers. In Job, God’s eyes must penetrate the clouds to view the doings of humans below. Elevation is also implied by Job 22:12: “Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are.”
This picture of the cosmos is reinforced by Ezekiel’s vision. The Hebrew word raqiya appears five times in Ezekiel, four times in Ezekiel 1:22-26 and once in Ezekiel 10:1. In each case the context requires a literal vault or dome. The vault appears above the “living creatures” and glitters “like a sheet of ice.” Above the vault is a throne of sapphire (or lapis lazuli). Seated on the throne is “a form in human likeness,” which is radiant and “like the appearance of the glory of the Lord.” In short, Ezekiel saw a vision of God sitting throned on the vault of heaven, as described in Isaiah 40:22.
Going back to the Isaiah 40:22 passage, it has been claimed by many (including me in times past) that “circle” is a description of the Earth as a globe. As Robert J. Schadewald points out, the Hebrew word used here is “chug“ (pronounced “khoog”), but is this the word one would use for a ball-shaped object? No. The word comes from another very similar word, both of which mean:
Circle means circle. Not ball. Isaiah clearly knows the difference between a circle and a spherical object. Note that a few chapters prior he uses a completely different word for a ball:
Isaiah 22:18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord’s house.
The Hebrew word Isaiah used for “ball” here is “dur“ because, of course you can’t toss a circle (chug). Whereas, of course, a spherical object you can toss. He knew the difference. Therefore, I now believe Isaiah 40:22 is a terrible Scripture reference to use as a description of the Earth’s shape being a sphere. But, let’s continue to test this. Where else is “chug” used and how?
Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.
How do you “inscribe a circle” on the face of something to get a ball? Seems to me, the circle is something cut into something else. The Hebrew word the ESV translated into “inscribe” is “chaqaq” which means:
Taking the Law of First Mention into account again, we must realize that there was precedence set for the “circle of the earth” prior to Isaiah writing about it. King Solomon is telling us the “circle” Isaiah would later write about (likely being fully aware of what Solomon wrote) was cut into something that was deep. In Genesis, we saw the waters were deep. Then the Holy Spirit moved across the waters. A firmament was created to separate the waters, then the waters under it were gathered into one place and the dry land “appeared.” Could it be that when, YHWH “carved a circle in the deep,” this was how the waters were divided and the land was revealed? I don’t know, but I’m definitely not seeing a ball showing up anywhere in these descriptions. Let’s continue looking at the oldest book of the Bible again:
Job 26:10(NASB) He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.
Job 26:10 (KJV) He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
The KJV uses the word “compassed” in this verse, but the English words mean the same thing: A circular ring that creates a boundary. In this case, the word translated as “inscribed a circle” in the NASB and “compassed the waters” in the KJV is the same word (chug) used in Isaiah 40:22. So, let’s put all of these parallel Scriptures together in the chronological order of time in which they were written:
Job 26:10(NASB) He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.
Genesis 1 (KJV):
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament {that divided the waters} Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.
and finally…
Isaiah 40:22 (KJV) It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Here we see Job, Moses and Solomon setting the stage, with Isaiah actually being the last one in this list to write of these things. Based on the Law of First Mention then, we must understand that he is only confirming what has already been said by others before him concerning how YHWH literally carved a circle into the deep. This kind of language does not give us a picture of a ball floating in endless space. Rather it gives us something that looks more along the lines of the following, which depicts the earth as being a circular mass carved into a base of something else that has 4 corners:
The above pic shows the circle of the earth as having both convexity and concavity to it. I found that to be rather odd. It also does not show the dome. So, I decided to create my own 3D rendering of the Biblically described model (see below). I suspect that before the Flood, the waters below (outside the dome) would have been raised up to cover most – if not all – of the dome. If true, obviously, the sides of the container would have to be higher. Also, if true, this would have caused an increase of pressure inside the dome and may account for the hyperbaric conditions many scholars describe as existing prior to the Flood.
When we get to the Book of Enoch’s take on this, you will see the earth and its boundary described in much greater detail. In the meantime, consider also what the Psalmist said:
Psalm 104: 1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. 6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Which image now better fits what we are reading thus far concerning our circular earth with a boundary around it?
We’ve been taught that the Earth is spinning, with its surface at the equator moving at a speed of roughly 1,000 miles per hour. And we’re told the Earth is zooming around the sun at about 67,000 miles per hour. In addition, our solar system–Earth and all–whirls around the center of our galaxy at some 490,000 miles per hour… but there are a number of Scriptures describing the Earth as being fixed and not moving. This particular passage from Job really caught my attention:
Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Again, Job is believed by many to have been the first book of Scripture written. In it, we see in verse 1 that YHWH Himself is speaking. This is the Creator talking here! He speaks of “laying a foundation” with a “corner stone” that is “fastened” in place. If ever there was a Flat Earther, anti-globalist Scripture, this one is it. How do you twist and distort that Scripture to fit a rotating globe, freely floating in space? Where is the “fastened foundation” with a “corner stone” in that model? Using the principle established in the Law of First Mention, we see there are a number of other authors who carry this theme forward:
1 Samuel 2:8
He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.
1 Chronicles 16:30Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96: 9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.
Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Looking at the various English translations of Psalm 104:5, it really doesn’t look to me like any of them are describing a rotating ball spinning around at 1,000 mph, while whisking around in some kind of an orbit at 67,000 mph. Rather, we have a verbal depiction of something totally stationary, established on a firm foundation…
Here are two of the above verses taken from the Septuagint (the others are pretty much the same as the KJV):
1 Chronicles 16:30 Let the whole earth fear before him; let the earth be established, and not be moved.
Psalm 93:1The Lord reigns; he has clothed himself with honour: the Lord has clothed and girded himself with strength; for he has established the world, which shall not be moved.
And then there is this one:
Zechariah 1:11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sits quietly, and is at rest.
Some try and say, these verses just mean the earth is made the way God wants it and it’s placed where he wants it, not to be moved and (as in the case of Zechariah 1:11) things are in a “peaceful state” of being. OK. That may be one way to read these verses (which requires a globalist preconceived notion). But what if we just accept what it says, literally at face value? Especially considering Psalm 104:5 which clearly says the earth has “foundations” that won’t be moved. How does that look on a floating, rotating globe? Where do you put the “foundations” in that scenario? With the KJV renderings of these verses, some may say there is a difference between “earth” and “world,” as in the word “world” means people or nations. OK. Fine. Let’s go with that. So then what are these verses saying? All of the people are going to be frozen solid so that they “shall not be moved” or what? Seems to me, it’s just saying that this thing we are standing on has been established on something and it’s not going to be moved. Again, tossing out all preconceived ideas of a spinning globe, just reading the text by itself, no one would ever think anything different from what it says.
Plus, we use the word “world” as a synonym for “earth” all the time. As an example, I could say, “As a former missionary, for 6 years, I traveled the world, spreading the Gospel to people in over a dozen countries.” If I said that, you would clearly understand that I was flying around the world – as in the earth – on my mission trips.
What about seeming contradictions such as:
Job 9:6 who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.
Psalms 104:5 Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.
Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Isaiah 24:18 He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
Those are just a few examples of this nature. There are others, which clearly show the earth being knocked around in various ways. I think there is a difference between YHWH being able to shake, rattle and roll the earth at His pleasure or in His anger and the earth being removed altogether from its pillared foundation, so personally, I see no contradiction here. It appears to me that YHWH has set this place up to be permanent, and though He may knock it around from time to time, its still not going to leave its firmly established foundation. Yes, earthquakes and catastrophe are permissible, but utter destruction will never come. Take the Flood of Noah for instance. Clearly, the world was rocked:
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Something got shaken up quite a bit, yet, we’re still here. The earth still stands, unmoved, on a sure foundation. Indeed, without a doubt, Scripture is telling us the earth is not constantly moving. In fact, there is growing evidence within the scientific community revealing that the earth is not rotating either. It is quite stationary in every respect. For further evidence of this in both history and science, please take the time to watch this video:
Let’s forget the globe vs flat/enclosed earth debate for the moment. Start breaking down the various arguments. Some may argue that the geocentric vs heliocentric models are apart from the globe vs flat/enclosed models – as in they are separate, unrelated arguments. I’m actually thinking they are much more connected than many may think. Because if we end up proving the Scriptures mean what they say concerning the earth not moving, then why not accept what it says concerning its circular shape and nature “under the dome” too? Scripture is clearly telling us the world/earth is circular and enclosed and not spherical and floating in an open system of planets and stars outside of the firmament.
Amos 9:6 is also rather interesting, but its meaning gets completely lost in the KJV:
Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.
This use of the word “troop” here gives us the idea of “boots on the ground.” But that doesn’t appear to be what is being said there. Consider some of the other renderings of this verse:
The NASB uses the words “vaulted dome” there. The Hebrew word in question is “aguddah,” which according to Brown-Driver-Briggs means:
So, here again, we have the sense of a vaulted dome setting on the earth. This dome of Heaven is also described as circular:
Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.
Job 22:14 (LXX) A cloud is his hiding-place, and he shall not be seen; and he passes through the circle of heaven.
This makes me think of those long-term exposure pictures we have all seen of the night sky:
According to the Scriptures we’ve looked at so far, we have the Earth under the stretched out “curtain of heaven,” on a foundation that won’t be moved, set about with a boundary. This is painting an interesting picture, but again, it’s definitely not looking like a globe to me. And it also doesn’t look like the Earth is spinning either. Rather, we see the Scriptures painting a picture of a stationary, circular Earth under the circle of heaven. Could the above pics represent the “circle of heaven” in a literal sense? What if the pole star is the actual base of the “circle of heaven” upon which YHWH’s throne sits?
Then we have the whole issue of the so-called “corners” and “ends” of the Earth…
Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.
Many Christian apologists want to convince us this is talking about the four cardinal points as we saw in the GotQuestion.org analysis, which I broke down in the previous blog. But if we accept that the authors of Scripture were directly inspired by the Holy Spirit of the Creator Himself, don’t you think they would have used better terms to describe a spinning globe orbiting the sun if that were indeed the case? Because I must say, if the Bible really is written in 5th Grade reading level English as so many have tried to teach me that it is my whole life, then, a simple reading of the Scriptures absolutely does not paint a picture of a globe! No kid – unhindered by the interpretation and indoctrination of a “scientist,” an “astronaut,” “scholar” or “theologian” – would ever get a spinning globe out of any of the above. Rather, again, Scripture appears to be describing something that may look a lot more like this:
And then what are we supposed to do with these Scriptures…
Joshua 10:13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Habakkuk 3:11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
Isaiah 38:8Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
Those three Scriptures alone argue more in favor of a stationary, fixed earth with a moving sun and moon inside the earth’s firmament than for the typical model we – including me – hold to concerning our globe going around the sun. Even more so when you consider the small sun and moon (which are described as being the same size in the Flat/Enclosed Earth model) are described as parking over specific cities:
Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
Ultimately, the question of the Bible’s validity is raised when looking at the mechanics of the Joshua, Habakkuk and Isaiah stories from the “scientific” perspective. Because the only way the sun and moon could stand still and/or move BACKWARD across the sky in our standard model would be for the earth to stop or suddenly begin to rotate the other way, correct itself and then start back up again in order to get everything back to normal.
“Earth’s magnetic field might go away, too. While we’re not entirely sure how that magnetic field is generated, one leading theory states that it’s the result of Earth’s inner core rotating slightly faster than outer core (yep, two different rotations on one planet). If both of them stop, the mechanism behind Earth’s magnetic field may as well, leaving us exposed to potential harmful solar winds “
“If the Earth stopped spinning suddenly, the atmosphere would still be in motion with the Earth’s original 1100 mile per hour rotation speed at the equator. All of the land masses would be scoured clean of anything not attached to bedrock. This means rocks, topsoil, trees, buildings, your pet dog, and so on, would be swept away into the atmosphere.”
Now watch these videos, as told by those who believe the current, dominant view of our cosmology:
So, if we are to claim we believe the Bible is true and we can take it literally, we have a big problem concerning the stories that describe the sun and moon standing still, and even going backward. I think these are questions worthy of answering from a Biblical world view. And I’m sorry, but typical “apologetics” responses such as the ones given here, don’t really cut it for me: http://creation.mobi/joshuas-long-day Surely, we can do better than that! Of course, saying, “Well, God can do anything. He created the Universe, so surely He could suspend all of the laws of nature and physics to accommodate these miracles” is a nice Kindergarten answer. But such an answer will never satisfy a skeptic with an analytical, scientific mind. They will instead write our Bible off as a book of fantasy. Science triumphs over fantasy. Why believe a book that is so demonstrably false? See the problems we run into?
In an enclosed, flat, stationary model however, those problems are easily solved. The same with Scriptures like these:
Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
I can hear the arguments already. Daniel is having a dream. In the temptation of Christ, Satan could have shown Jesus a “movie” of sorts, or maybe it was just all of the “local kingdoms” viewable from that particular mountain. In Revelation, maybe Jesus has booked a round-the-world tour before touching down (despite the fact that Scripture seems to be saying He’s booked a direct flight, down from the clouds to the Mount of Olives). OK. But what if… we just believe what everyone else has been telling us in the Scriptures? If the world is flat, each of the above examples are totally doable. We don’t have to make up excuses. We just have to believe it.
Then, of course we also have to deal with Scriptures that describe the stars falling from Heaven and/or ceasing to give their light, such as in these Scriptures:
Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
What? The stars and constellations are all going to “wink out” and no longer give their light? But what about the alleged planets going around those stars? Of course, we can try and rationalize this away and say that we just won’t be able to see them because the sky on Earth is going to be cloudy or offer up some other lame, eisegetical explanation, but that’s not what the text says.
We must also consider the fact that Genesis as well as the book of Enoch both tell us that the moon is a (female) “lessor light” that is self illuminating. Nothing in the ancient texts even hint at her as being a reflector of the sun. Even science confirms the fact that her light is quite different from that of her fiery, male counterpart. Isaiah also confirms this idea by stating that the moon “shall not cause her lightto shine.” Later in the text, Isaiah then goes on to describe the heavens rolling up like a scroll.
Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Wait. What? The Universe is going to roll up like a scroll? Its “hosts” (stars) are going to fall down… presumably on us?? How are we to imagine the cosmos that Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins want us to believe in doing this?
Furthermore, are we to accept the notion that the literal fate of the allegedly ever expanding Universe, as taught to us in school, literally hinges on the sin and subsequent judgement of humans on Earth? Are the worlds allegedly orbiting countless suns in billions of galaxies all going to be judged and burned up because of us? Is that really fair? Yet, this is exactly what we are literally forced to accept if we are to believe the Holy Spirit inspired words of prophets like Isaiah or apostles like Peter and John…
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
By the way, we must also note that Isaiah’s prophecy concerning the stars falling finds a second witness in the words of Yeshua (Jesus Christ) Himself!
Matthew 24: 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is an extraordinary passage of Scripture! First, we are told that we will essentially be bedazzled by “signs and wonders” such that even “the very elect” could be deceived by them. Then, we are told what not to look for and what we should look for in the coming return of our Savior. Immediately after the tribulation, we discover that the sun is going to be darkened and the moon will no longer give (not reflect) her light, and the stars will literally fall from Heaven.
Again, we find another witness concerning the stars falling, by our Savior in the Revelation of Jesus Christ as given to the Apostle John:
Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
That’s what was revealed to us by God from two different witnesses (one of them being the Creator Himself!) over hundreds of years. So, if we say we take the Bible literally, we’ll have a big problem with these Scriptures. Then again, what right do we have to not take them literally? In other words, it is only our preconceived notions of stars such as Acturus, Vega, Pollux, Aldebaran, Betelgeuse and Sirius as essentially being distant suns with planets going around them that prevent us from taking these Scriptures literally. I mean, it would be a very bad day if stars are what Carl Sagan and other monkey-man scientists would have us to believe they are come falling down to earth like figs! But what if the stars really are intelligent beings? We see a number of references to angels as stars. Take these for instance:
Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Singing stars during the Creation account? Note also that Job 38:7 quite literally obliterates the bogus “Sethite Theory” concerning Genesis 6:4. The sons of Seth were not there at the start of Creation. Sorry. Neither does the text of Genesis 6 make any mention whatsoever of the sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain. That’s bogus eisegetical theology at its best. No. The “sons of God” of Job 38:7 are the same as the “sons of God” in Genesis 6:4. They are angels!
The Apostle John makes note of an angel as a star too…
Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
People even began to worship the stars as god-like, sentient beings:
2 Kings 21:5 And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.
2 Kings 23:5 (ISV) The king unseated the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had appointed to burn incense in the high places throughout the cities of Judah and in the environs surrounding Jerusalem, including those who had been burning incense to Baal, to the sun, to the moon, to the constellations, and to every star in the heavens.
Note: I chose the ISV for 2 Kings 23:5 because I believe the KJV is in error in its use of the word “planets” for “mazzaloth,” which is the Hebrew version of what we call the Zodiac, or as the ISV renders it, “the constellations.”
Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Biblically speaking, the “hosts of heaven” are usually associated with the “armies of heaven” – or in other words the angels. But the “hosts of heaven” is also frequently used as a reference to the stars. Could there be a reason for this? I think so. Note also: IF this proves to be true, then we must re-evaluate our thinking concerning this Scripture too:
Revelation 19: 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Again, all through the Scriptures, we see references to the armies of Heaven as “the hosts of heaven” and as YHWH being the “Lord of hosts” and such. Nowhere do we ever see a “bride” depicted as a soldier. Newly wedded women especially do NOT go to war. So it can not be the “Christians” (i.e. the “bride of Christ”) who were supposedly Raptured out earlier that are coming back with Him. Could it then literally be the “hosts of heaven” – the billions of stars we see up there in the dome – that are coming with Him? I will cover this in a lot more depth in my upcoming blog, Angels as Stars.
Getting back to the nature of our world and its place in the cosmos, there are a LOT more Scriptures we could look at regarding the above topics. In fact, the more you search the Bible for your answers, you’ll keep running into descriptions of the earth stating:
1) It is fixed and not moving (spinning, orbiting, etc.)
2) It is circular and has edges/corners/pillars/foundations, etc.
3) The #4 comes up a lot in reference to 4 corners, 4 winds, etc. – the 4 corners indicating a circle carved into a square
4) It is hedged about with a boundary that connects with Heaven
5) There is a metallic canopy of sorts stretched out like a “tent” over it, within which the (sentient?) stars, sun and moon are placed to move about above the stationary earh.
Whether or not we want to accept this will depend on our willingness to admit the level of cognitive dissonance we still want to maintain. And lest you be tempted to think I’m just an uneducated, village idiot and nothing I’ve said has any “crediblity” much less truth, please watch this video and see what Dr. Michael Heiser and others have to say about the Bible’s descriptions of the cosmos:
Things get even worse if we accept the Book of Enoch as having any measure of credibility, because as far as I’m concerned, that book knocks a home run out of the park for the Flat Earthers. Before we go into the Book of Enoch though, I’d like to take a good hard look at angels and how they relate to the stars above.
– See more at: http://testingtheglobe.com/bible.html#sthash.B5BRmkkz.dpuf
Many of my ‘scientifically’ minded friends have mockingly declared, “Why haven’t the FE’rs sent up a rocket to prove the flatness if NASA is lying to us?” Well, here is a private rocket launch in 2014 by GoFast which went to 73 miles above the earth. The moon is revealed in this rocket video where it shouldn’t have been for that rocket launch, time, and position where it should not have been when it was at zenith over Australia which would have been behind the curvature of the earth. Unfortunately, this video has been removed:
