johnmcglone
Christ Our Life
From Canada, a great worship group with a style all their own.
Doug Tanner
More excellent worship with Doug Tanner
Exposing Oneness Pentecostalism: The Biblical Godhead
THE DOCTRINE OF THE GODHEAD
by Pastor Britt Williams
The Bible repeatedly asserts that God is one. He is one God (James 2:19) and one Jehovah (Deut 6:4). However, nowhere in Scripture are we ever told that God is one person. The Bible teaches there is one God manifest in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. Oneness Pentecostalism teaches that Jesus is the Father, He is the Son and He is the Holy Ghost. Hence the name, Jesus Only. However, evidence from the Word of God clearly refutes this erroneous doctrine which dishonors the Godhead. Indeed, the Scripture does state there is one God, but the word “one” relates to unity as well as number. For example, I John 5:7 communicates the Godhead as being one in unity while carefully preserving the distinction of persons within.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The three are spoken of as one in number and yet treated individually in Scripture. There is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Ghost.
1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father,of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Thus there are three separate persons in divine individuality and divine plurality. The Father is called God…
1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father…
The Son is called God…
John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God.
And the Holy Spirit is called God…
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Individually, each is called God; collectively, they can be spoken of as one God because of their perfect unity. The word”God” can be used either in the singular or in the plural, like sheep. Everything that could pertain to God collectively could also apply equally to each member of the Godhead as individuals. However, there are some particulars which relate to each individual person of the deity as to position, office, and work that could not be attributed to either of the other members of the Godhead. For instance, the Father is the head of Christ…
1 Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
The Son is the only begotten of the Father…
2 John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
The Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son…
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever…
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
PLURALITY IN SCRIPTURES
The names of God prove plurality of persons. The Hebrew word Elohim, translated “God” in Genesis 1:1 and also in more than 2,700 other places in the Old Testament, is a uni-plural noun which means “more than one.” Had the sacred writer been led to use the singular El, then there would have been no indication of a divine plurality. But in this initial reference to God, he was led of the Holy Ghost to pen the Word Elohim.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth.
Also when one considers that the word Elohim is used about ten to one over the word El, we would have to conclude that this preference for the plural over the singular indicates a definite sign of plurality in the Godhead. Genesis 3:22, where it says, “the man has become as one of us,” proves plurality of persons by the use of the pronoun “us.” Two Lords are mentioned in Genesis 19:24–one on earth and one in heaven. Two Lords sit side by side in Psalms 110:1-5, in Matthew 22:44, and in Acts 2:33-34, 36. Two and three Persons are mentioned in the introductions to many New Testament books: Romans, James, I Corinthians, I Peter, to name a few.
JESUS IS NOT THE FATHER
We know from the Word of God that while Jesus was on earth the Father was in heaven…
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Consider Jesus praying, “Let this cup pass from Me.”
Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Here, Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, right before His betrayal. He was praying to the Father about the ordeal He was about to undergo. Several points are worth bringing out here. First, in this passage, Jesus addresses the Father. He says, “Oh my Father…” Note that Jesus says”my” and “Father.” These two words designate a “me and you” relationship. Second, “If it be possible” is Jesus expressing a desire, a hope. What is that hope or desire? It is that “this cup pass from me.” The cup Jesus is speaking of is the immanent ordeal of betrayal, scourging, and crucifixion. Jesus did not want to go through this. He was expressing His desire. It was His will not to undergo the severe ordeal ahead of Him. If this was not so, He would not have expressed the desire to have the cup pass from Him. Third, Jesus says, “Nevertheless., not my will, but thine, be done.” With this,Jesus is expressing His will and contrasting it to the will of the Father. Yet,He is stating that even though He does not want to undergo what lay ahead,”Nevertheless,” He would submit to the will of the Father.This shows that the person of Jesus had a separate and different will than the Father. Since we have two separate simultaneous wills, we have two separate and simultaneous persons and Oneness Pentecostal theology is incorrect.
We also know that Christ now sits at the right hand of the Father…
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Jesus also said He would confess men before His Father which was in heaven, proving He (Jesus)is not Himself the Father…
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Jesus was the only begotten Son of the Father. Hence, Jesus could not be the Father, nor could He beget Himself…
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Over 80 times in the Word of God Jesus affirmed that He was not the Father, nor was He the only person in the Godhead. Admittedly, we do not understand everything about the Trinity. However, it does become somewhat less confusing and mysterious if we don’t try to force two or more separate Persons into becoming only one Person, simply because we choose not to recognize that the true meaning of the word “one” actually refers to unity.
THE HOLY GHOST IS NOT JESUS OR THE FATHER
The Holy Spirit is another and He is from both the Father and the Son (John 5:32).
John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
Jesus could not be the Holy Ghost as Jesus said it was necessary for Him to go away for the Holy Ghost to come…
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
So, what do we have? Jesus is God; the Holy Ghost is God; the Father is God. But Jesus is not the Holy Spirit; Jesus is not the Father. And neither is the Father the Lord Jesus Christ; nor is the Father the Holy Spirit. The Scriptural passages which provide the basis for the Trinitarian doctrine cannot be reconciled to the Jesus Only position without totally disregarding the meaning of language and without totally ignoring many contrary Scriptures. On the other hand, the favorite Jesus Only passages can be reconciled without strain or contradiction to the Trinitarian position.
RESPONDING TO ONENESS
- Oneness apologists claim that Deuteronomy 6:4 denies the Trinity.
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord…
Deuteronomy 6:4 does not deny the Trinity, but rather affirms one of the tenets of the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity affirms that there is “one God.” Quite often, those who argue against the Trinity don’t understand the doctrine of the Trinity well enough to explain it, much less refute it. Oneness apologists often claim that the Trinity is a belief in three Gods in order to make the doctrine contradict the Bible. On the contrary, Trinitarians believe in one God who exists in three separate, simultaneous, persons.
- Oneness apologists claim that Isaiah 9:6 proves that Jesus is God the Father.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The careful examination of the original languages indicate “Everlasting Father” can be rendered “Father of Eternity.” Therefore, “Father of eternity” in Isaiah 9:6 means that Jesus is “eternal.” According to Matthew Henry’s Commentary this implies that Jesus is the creator of the ages (Heb.1:2; 11:3). It does not mean that He is, “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Cor.1:3).
- Oneness apologists claim that John 5:43 shows that “Jesus”is the Father’s name and thus that Jesus is the Father.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name,him ye will receive.
Notice that the second part of this verse insinuates that one who comes “in his own name” is not to be “received.” If Jesus was actually the Father which would literally make His name Jesus, then He would have been coming “in His own name” and it would have been wrong to receive Him. This contrast between “My Father’s name” and “his own name”proves that Jesus did not come “in his own name.”Therefore, “Jesus” is not the Father’s name, and Jesus is not the Father. This turns out to be a proof text against oneness theology.
- Oneness apologists claim that John 10:30 proves the Father and the Son are one person.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Any first year Greek student will notice that a one-person interpretation of this verse is precluded by the first person plural in the Greek New Testament. A literal translation of this verse would be: “I and the Father we are one.” If Jesus was the Father, He would have used the first person singular and said, “I am the Father.” Furthermore, the Greek word for “one” is in the neuter gender which points to the idea of one in “unity or one essence.” The masculine form would have been used to signify one in contrast to many.
- Oneness Pentecostals claim that John 14:6-11 proves that Jesus is God the Father.
John 14:6-11 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so longtime with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
Notice in the passage that Jesus begins by stating, “No man cometh unto the Father but by Me” and later states, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Dr. Robert Bowman points out that “the natural sense of these words is that Jesus is not the Father, but a mediator between us and the Father.” It would be ridiculous for Jesus to claim that no man could come “to” the Father except “through” Him if Jesus and the Father were one and the same person. The words “to” and”through” only make sense if Jesus and the Father are distinct persons, with Jesus being the Mediator between man and the Father. In verse 7,Jesus states, “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.” Bowman points out that “this is true, not because Jesus is the Father,but because those who know Jesus are led by Him to know the Father as they see Him imaged perfectly in Jesus. Thus, says Jesus, ‘from now on you know Him, and have seen Him’ (v.7b). Existing with the Father as the one indivisible Divine Being, Jesus can say, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father’ (v.9). Nevertheless, Jesus does not say, ‘I am the Father,’ but rather, ‘I am in the Father and the Father is in Me’ (v.10, repeated in v.11; and 10:38).” Oneness believers frequently cite the second part of this last statement, “the Father is in Me,” to mean that the deity (“Father”) dwells in the humanity (“Son”) of Jesus. This view, however, is clearly faulty in light of the first part of the sentence, “I am in the Father,” which in oneness terms would mean that the human nature of Jesus dwells in His deity. No Oneness Pentecostal believes the humanity of Jesus dwelt in the divinity of Jesus. Moreover, it fails to account for the fact that in this same context, as well as elsewhere, Jesus uses this sort of expression to denote His unity with believers: “In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you inMe, and I in you” (v.20; and 17:21-23).
- Oneness apologists interpret John 17:6,11-12 as proof that”Jesus” is the Father’s name and therefore that Jesus is the Father.
John 17:6, 11-12 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word….11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Oneness writers point to the words “manifested” and “gave” in order to claim that Jesus was the Father’s name, and that the Father “gave” His name to Jesus, as evidence that Jesus is the Father. They overlook the fact that a human father can give his name to his son, without the father and son being the same person! Furthermore, it should be noted from this passage that Jesus said twice that His disciples were “in Thy (the Father’s) name.” If oneness believers interpret this phrase in a consistent manner with the way they interpret it in John 5:43, they are left with the ridiculous conclusion that the disciples are the Father! The oneness interpretation simply does not work because it is not logically consistent.
- Oneness writers claim that Col.2:9 proves that Jesus is God the Father and Holy Spirit.
Col. 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Since Colossians 2:9says that the fulness of “the Godhead” dwells in Jesus, Oneness writers have argued that the Godhead is in Jesus, not Jesus in the Godhead. This either/or approach, however, causes the oneness interpretation of Colossians 2:9 to contradict their interpretation of John 10:38 where Jesus states, “the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.” Since “the Father” in oneness theology is “the Godhead,” John 10:38 in their terms would mean that the Godhead is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Godhead. When Oneness believers deny that “Jesus is in the Godhead,” what they mean to deny is that Jesus is one person in a triune Godhead. Colossians 2:9, though, does not rule out that possibility. What it affirms is that Jesus is no less than the full and complete revelation of God’s nature (‘theotetos’,”deity”) in the flesh. While not all three persons of God are incarnate in Jesus, all of God’s essence is incarnate in Jesus.
© Edited by B.W., all rights reserved, Consuming Fire Fellowship.
Josh and Jenna’s First Arrow in the Quiver!
Psa 127:3-5 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. 4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. 5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
I awoke today to my pregnant daughter explaining she had been up every ten minutes since 4 am with pains repeating. Did I say she was 81/2 months pregnant? We were not that excited at first but by afternoon her labor pains were 5 minutes apart, we called the mid wife. She arrived and we began to set up the curtains and birthing pool downstairs. We have had the privilege to host three previous births there from fellow believers’ families, this will be our fourth. Our granddaughter’s name is Lydia Orissa Lovell, they thought that LOL would be cool initials, we’ll see what Lydia says in the years to come.
After a few hours of hand holding and encouragement, our son-in law Joshua came up overwhelmed with the suffering of his bride. I chided him to return to her side to suffer alongside of her. My wife encouraged him to take a break and get some more blankets, my wife is very wise in these things! She explained that Jenna’s sisters were being very helpful giving him a break. I can imagine the heartache, he is going through. We’re all feeling it too…
As I am writing, I can hear her cries in labor. My heart skips a beat as it has every time one of our children has been hurt over the years. Every parent relates to this roller coaster of emotions which hit you as you see or hear your child get hurt or are hurting. Nida related how difficult it was to bear through the painful wailing of Jenna as she began her final push for just over an hour. It was at that time that the Lord drew me off this blogpost. He led me and the boys to pray for her, the baby, and the rest of our family, and midwives. We were on the second level of our home right over where the birth was happening. We could hear her pain and cry out to the Lord with her for mercy with quick and less painful deliverance for them as she went through each birth pang. However, we know that as difficult as these things are, this pain is a trial which brings forth joy when the child has been delivered. As our Master Jesus taught the disciples about His going away.
John 16:20-22 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. 21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. 22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
One of the midwives later stated, “Thank you for praying, that went about as quickly and smoothly as we could expect.” Praise Jesus for His mercy unto our family in this birth of our granddaughter. Boy, I really look forward to deliverance from this present world as well. These earthly bodies we now inhabit will be planted so that we may inherit immortal bodies which shall never see corruption! Hallelujah, what hope we have in you Jesus!
At 8:15pm Sarah Ann came rushing up the stairs, “Lydia is born, she’s cuuuuute!”
Lydia Orissa Lovell born 28 Jan, 2016, 8:15 pm to Joshua and Jenna Lovell in the McGlone home in Breeding, KY. She is 20″ long, 5 lbs 14 oz, very active, estimated to be at 37-38 weeks of gestation. Very white complexion, with little hair, lots of Joshua’s features; nose, chin, but Jenna’s legs, and toes. More characteristics forthcoming in the next months…as God grows her at her momma’s breast.
Jenna and Lydia not long after delivery getting baby warmed up!
We pray for Joshua and Jenna to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ as they seek Him to govern over their family as they raise Lydia. Hopefully they will have a dozen more if the Lord wills. I always really enjoyed the old movie, “Cheaper by the Dozen” what a classic! They even have a scene where the father mocks a planned parenthood crony. We love babies round these parts…
Joshua already has Daddy’s touch
Lots of love for Lydia
We were speechless, all we can say now is, “Praise Jesus!”
South Cali in January!
Praise the Lord I was invited to come to beautiful sunny Southern California to preach by Br. Doug McComb who graciously hosted me, Jesse Morrell and Joshua Collins. I arrived with Jesse at LAX on Friday night. We began our work on Saturday in front of Grauman’s Chinese Theater in Hollywood, which I term Hellyweird. We also worked with Manuel and his son there as well. We saw another group of preachers who were in and ideal location so we sought another. Good preaching for few hours, then had dinner, and rushed out to Old Town Pasadena on Saturday night to work with R.D. Christian, Mikhail Savenko, and Jonathan Murelles. Good work for the Lord Jesus’ glory, headed back to our hotel.
On Sunday, Jesse spoke at two different Filipino churches and gave excellent exhortations to personal witnessing, and evangelism. The congregations came forward to seek God about these things in prayer, the Holy Ghost was moving. We will see how they progress shortly, pray for their courage and for all believers to rise up and give a defense of Jesus in this wicked day.
Monday morning we went to Pasadena City College first day of classes. We had a blast with thousands hearing the truths of God presented in a way that keeps their attention and provokes their thinking. When we first arrived I tracted the long lines to register to class, I must have given over 300 tracts to the students during the day. This is one of my favorite new tracts called, “Does God Hear You?”
What is so fantastic about these tracts are that 100% of the proceeds go to help missions overseas to widows, and orphans.
Here is a video of Joshua Collins of him witnessing one2one to a Muslim:
Tuesday morning we headed back out to Pasadena City College!
Day Two at PCC went well but was much shorter. Doug and Joshua preached first drawing some interest. I took over and began rebuking loudly crying out against the wickedness of this generation which has been so influenced by the previous two’s filthy dirty death styles. I began to get some interest after dialogue with a very confused tranny homosexual who thought what I was saying was funny. I preached for about an half an hour drawing about fifty or so lost souls. I called on Jesse as I felt I was losing what had been gained through disruptions of Christians within the crowds in small groups. Sure enough his prowess at pithy pointy preaching began to swell the crowd to a few hundred in just a short time. He preached for about an hour and was interrupted by latino amplification and dancing on the quad. We tried a small waist amplifier but the administration was asking us not to interfere with that and that we could move to the other end of the quad. I initially didn’t want to move, but thankfully we did. Jesse took a break as he wasn’t feeling well.
Joshua Collins and I decided to scope out the other end and see what the Lord would do. We surveyed everything, talked about acoustics, choke points, shade, seating for the hearer, directing preaching at individuals, dialogue, and maintaining a particular direction in preaching so hearers would gather where it would make sense. He began to preach, within a few minutes he began to have hecklers, he handled himself very well. I was trying to prompt him, and get animated in the crowd. I haven’t normally haven’t practiced tag team preaching, but we did a bit of that as the Lord was leading me as well. It was a lot of fun and I believe the Spirit was pleased. Joshua finished up after about 40 minutes and I took over for about 10, a free taco hawker stole most of my crowd.
We called it a day as we had to go and do a couple of tv shows for public access TV in Monrovia. Doug McComb was our host on the show called One to One. The first show featured Jesse, then the second Joshua and myself. We had a great time speaking on what the Lord is doing in our ministries, how to open air/witness, answering objections, and giving a Gospel presentation/exhortation to the lost and the churches of Monrovia.
Please pray for us as we head out to Cal Poly Pamona today with other brothers who are in the area to lift up the Name of Jesus Christ, thank you! I will make another report tomorrow, so please keep checking back. Thank you.
Wednesday, we ran late and ended up getting to campus about noon thirty. Ryan and Mikhail had already drawn a crowd of about 50 or so. We needed to get registered with the admin to work on this huge campus with beautiful vistas of snowcapped mountains and palm trees at the entrance. Unfortunately, a few of our preachers did not have ID’s with them so they weren’t able to preach at all. Very discouraging for them to experience, but a lesson to all who would desire to do this type of work.
Mikhail’s Preach at Cal Poly Panoma
Ryan’s Preach at Cal Poly Panoma
Ryan’s crowd grew to over a hundred, Mikhail asked me to come and break Ryan. I thought Jesse would do better but was willing. I took over and was just not able to get the crowd engaged very well. After about 40 minutes asked Jesse to relieve me. I had a divine appointment with a young Roman Catholic named Salvador, we spoke for about a half an hour, then he wanted to hear from the preacher. He listened carefully to Jesse for about an hour and came back to me. I worked with him carefully giving him seven reasons why the Roman church was the whore of Babylon. I gave him verses to support my arguments, I was really pleased with the interaction. I believe the Lord had already been drawing him, he just needed some more evidence in regards to the traditions of his fathers. Pray for him please.
I went down to a small amphitheater on my own to try and draw a small group for discussion. I was only there for about ten minutes before the Lord led me to walk with a young black man to speak to him about #blacklivesmatter and the infanticide of black children in neighborhoods all over the country by Planned Parenthood. As I was speaking to him bluntly about folks acting like dogs having sex, without the responsibility of marriage and family, an older black man got offended thinking I was calling black people dogs. To wit, he got angry and called me a dog. Go figure. We packed up our day and headed back for a meal with our host home. Praise Jesus.
Please pray for us tomorrow as we go to Pasadena City College for the third time this week. I really enjoy multi day visits to a particular campus. I think it really builds rapport to make good spiritual headway on a particular university. Then Friday, Jesse and I will be off to LAX for a very early morning departures to head home to our families. Thanks for your prayers saints!
Can Christians Judge? by John McGlone
Saints of God, before you go any further than this first bolded introduction, please answer this question. What do these verses mean if Christians are not allowed some form of judgment in this life in regard to both sinners and themselves?
1 Cor 2:15-16 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Direct quote from Jesus Christ: John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
1 Cor 6:1-6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
2 Cor 13:5-6
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
This is a dialogue with a professing believer by the name of Caleb about a Christian’s authority to judge. I have listed his views with ‘Caleb Q’ by the scriptures he is using to support the view that the Christian can’t judge and I have listed my counter scriptures and points that show that Christians should make judgments with a ‘John A’.
Caleb Q: Matthew 7:1
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”
John A: Matt 7:1-5 is speaking of hypocritical judgment between brothers, IF you will keep reading it says get the beam out of your eye that you might remove the speck out of mine.
Caleb Q: Luke 6:37
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.”… Read More
John A: Luke 6:37 understood in light of vs 40-42 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher. 41 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? 42 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
Same issue as Matt 7 hypocritical judgments such as you are making. Because if you can’t judge anything or anyone then please stop judging me!
Caleb Q: John 12:47
“As for those who hear my words but do not keep them, I do not judge them. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.”
John A: This is speaking of eternal judgment: John 12:47-48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
Caleb Q: Acts 23:3
“God will strike you, you whitewashed wall! You sit there to judge me according to the law, yet you yourself violate the law by commanding that I be struck!”
John A: Acts 23:1-3 Then Paul, looking earnestly at the council, said, “Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.” 2 And the high priest Ananias commanded those who stood by him to strike him on the mouth. 3 Then Paul said to him, “God will strike you, you whitewashed wall! For you sit to judge me according to the law, and do you command me to be struck contrary to the law?”
Obviously hypocritical judgment again as it is Paul being struck CONTRARY to the law. You need to read all the scriptures not just the ones that are seemingly prove your unbiblical view.
Caleb Q: Romans 2:1
“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”
John A: Rom 2:1-3 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?
Again we see that hypocritical judgment is what Paul is talking about. ”…for you who judge practice such things.” For example, a drunkard can hardly preach against drunkenness even though the Bible does because he would be hypocritical in doing so. You really need to read scripture in light of scripture verses your own subjective view. I seem to remember you don’t believe we can know objective truth from paper and ink, Caleb.
Caleb Q: Romans 14:10
“You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat your brother or sister with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.”
John A: You must keep reading Caleb! This is speaking of eternal judgment. But, the Jews twisted Jewish dietary laws into eternal condemnation for food consumption. Paul constantly battled Jews that were trying to convert the new Gentile believers to the Jewish religion.
Acts 14:11-18
For it is written:
“ As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things[e]is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Caleb Q: 1 Corinthians 4:5
“Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes.”…
John A: Again, context is important: Starting in 4:1-5
Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.[a] In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.
Here is it easily understood that stewards must be faithful and obedient. Then Paul outlines because final judgment comes from God, these earthy unrighteous judgments of men hold no reality with Paul. In fact he is so faithful to God he does not even judge himself, but submits to God’s judgment.
Caleb, you have twisted scriptures to your own destruction. You tell me I can’t judge and yet you judge me at the same time. This is inconsistent to say the least. You have no authority to say anything is right or wrong about anything because by your own words you can’t judge. I say a true Christian can judge according to scriptures. I do judge everything that you have written in light of the Bible. You can’t do that because you can’t even judge what you have written is true. You either need to become a true Christian or an infinite skeptic that can’t know if anything is right or wrong.
Caleb Q: James 4:11-12
“Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?”
John A: This is judgment between the saints in Christ. We have no authority to judge eternally between the brothers and sisters in the body of Jesus. But, the unbelievers are condemned already.
John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Here Jesus has already applied a judicial term to unbelievers. They are judged and condemned already! It could not be simpler to understand than that. For a Christian to tell an unbeliever that they are condemned is just repeating the righteous judgment of Christ.
Caleb Q: The Bible is very clear that God is the only judge; we are not to pass judgment on anyone. However well you may know your scriptures and however close you may be to God, that does NOT give you the right to judge!
John A: I agree that God is the final judge that passes eternal judgment on all who won’t receive salvation in Christ. I disagree that Christians are not supposed to judge. Here are the scriptures that you have denied in light of your view of God and His Word.
Matt 10:14-16 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!
Matt 11:21-23 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be[a] brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Here Jesus is pronouncing woes upon three whole metropolitan areas, that it will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah which had hell fire poured out of heaven upon them. As a Christian I can make judgments about people and the way they are living in order to warn of the coming wrath of God. This would be the only loving thing to do. By not giving them warning I am not loving them and their blood will be upon my hands. Ez 3
Matt 12:41-43 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.
Hold the phone! Jesus is saying someone else besides God will judge a whole generation and condemn it. By your own denial you don’t believe God’s word.
John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
We should judge not what is on the outside but what is coming out of their mouth by the abundance of their hearts. If wickedness is coming out then we are to judge and reprove them.
Eph 5:10-12 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
How do you prove something unless you test and judge it?
Acts 24:24-25 24 And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25 Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, “Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.
Paul spoke to them about judgment to come. This is what every Christian should also speak about. We warn of the terrible day of wrath to come. We must judge righteously what is happening around us with our neighbors, frends, families, and enemies that we could warn them properly.
1 Cor 2:15-16 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?”] But we have the mind of Christ.
Amen. The Holy Spirit dwelling in every true believer will agree with the work that He conducts from within to the world. Out of the abundance of the believers heart the words of God will pour like Living Water.
1 Cor 6:2-5 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?
This is the clearest of the scripture as to the authority of the believer to judge all temporal situations and people, angels and the world to come. And of course it even tells the brethren to judge righteously amongst themselves that we would not drag each other into courts to be judged by the unbeliever. This does not contradict earlier scripture but highlights the differences between righteous judgment now and unrighteous eternal judgment which none of us can claim.
In summary, it is clear the believer has all authority to judge unbelievers and believers alike as long as this judgment is righteous in accordance with scriptural guidelines. We are not to condemn our brothers and sisters in Christ for issues such as the Jewish ceremonial, dietary, and governmental laws but only according to the moral code written on every heart. This judgment is not eternal but one that is to bring the person from sin and to repentance about a particular issue. We are to reprove with all long suffering and sound doctrine the worldly carnal creatures that are willfully living in rebellion against our King. I exhort the body of Christ to align your thinking with the instruction of God’s word and begin to put into practice this righteous judgment spoken of so much in the Bible.
This picture clearly shows the destruction that sin has in a person’s life. He is someone’s son lost in a very dark world… I wonder where this young man is who was destroying his life with drugs? I warned him, judged him unprepared to die and go before the throne of Jesus without repentance, confession, and a new birth. What if he turned to Christ and lived at my call to life in Christ? I surely hope and pray that is what has or will happen with this man. Hallelujah, that’s our hope!
Here are some great verses on this subject:
Judgment was given to the Saints. We as believers are called to discern evil from good, to test every spirit, and use good judgment (Malachi 3:18; Hebrews 5:14).
Proverbs 18:5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment.
Psalm 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: This honor have all his Saints. Praise you the Lord.
Psalm 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaks wisdom, and his tongue talks of judgment..
Ezekiel 23:45 And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.
Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of Days came, & Judgment was given to the Saints of the most High; and the time came that the Saints possessed the kingdom.
1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the Saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.
The Lord is displeased when there is no judgment:
Isaiah 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goes therein shall not know peace.
Isaiah 59:15 Yes, truth fails; and he that departs from evil makes himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
The Greatest Murder Machine in History by Mike Konrad
Introduction by John McGlone
The march of history goes on and mankind never seems to learn. The greed of men for riches and control never ceases to amaze me. The bloodiest and cruelest of rulers have the greatest judgment as Jesus returns to lay claim upon His creation. John 1:1-3 As this article so well communicates it is false religions which have perhaps the worst record of all! The mono idol of the moon of the false prophet Muhammad is a blood thirsty demon that never seems to be satisfied with the outrageous and barbaric practices it seeks to promote. It evangelizes with the sword and as the Jesus taught to Peter in the Garden.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
The Greatest Murder Machine in History
by Mike Konrad
When one thinks of mass murder, Hitler comes to mind. If not Hitler, then Tojo, Stalin, or Mao. Credit is given to the 20th-century totalitarians as the worst species of tyranny to have ever arisen. However, the alarming truth is that Islam has killed more than any of these, and may surpass all of them combined in numbers and cruelty.
The enormity of the slaughters of the “religion of peace” are so far beyond comprehension that even honest historians overlook the scale. When one looks beyond our myopic focus, Islam is the greatest killing machine in the history of mankind, bar none.
The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. — Will Durant, as quoted on Daniel Pipes site.
Conservative estimates place the number at 80 million dead Indians.
According to some calculations, the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate). — Koenrad Elst as quoted on Daniel Pipes site
80 Million?! The conquistadors’ crimes pale into insignificance at that number. No wonder Hitler admired Islam as a fighting religion. He stood in awe of Islam, whose butchery even he did not surpass.
Over 110 Million Blacks were killed by Islam.
… a minumum of 28 Million African were enslaved in the Muslim Middle East. Since, at least, 80 percent of those captured by Muslim slave traders were calculated to have died before reaching the slave market, it is believed that the death toll from 1400 years of Arab and Muslim slave raids into Africa could have been as high as 112 Millions. When added to the number of those sold in the slave markets, the total number of African victims of the trans-Saharan and East African slave trade could be significantly higher than 140 Million people. — John Allembillah Azumah, author of The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa: A Quest for Inter-religious Dialogue
Add just those two numbers alone together, and Islam has surpassed the victims of 20th-century totalitarianism. However, it does not end there. Add the millions who died at the hand of Muslims in the Sudan in our lifetime.
Much of Islamic slavery was sexual in nature, with a preference for women. Those men who were captured were castrated. The mulatto children of the women were often killed, which explains why Islam was not demographically shifted towards the black race, unlike slaves in the West, who bore children to breed a mestizo class. Add in those dead children; and we arrive at well over 200 million.
Remember that in the 7th century, North Africa was almost totally Christian. What happened to them?
By the year 750, a hundred years after the conquest of Jerusalem, at least 50 percent of the world’s Christians found themselves under Muslim hegemony… Today there is no indigenous Christianity in the region [of Northwest Africa], no communities of Christians whose history can be traced to antiquity.– “Christianity Face to Face with Islam,” CERC
What happened to those Christian millions? Some converted. The rest? Lost to history.
We know that over 1 million Europeans were enslaved by Barbary Pirates. How many died is anybody’s guess.
…for the 250 years between 1530 and 1780, the figure could easily have been as high as 1,250,000 – BBC
In the Middle Ages…
…many slaves were passed through Armenia and were castrated there to fill the Muslim demand for eunuchs. — Slavery in Early Medieval Europe.
The same practice ran through Islamic Spain. North Europeans captured from raids up to Iceland, or purchased, were butchered in the castratoriums of Iberia. Many died from the operations that ran for centuries.
The number of dead from the Muslim conquest of the Balkans and Southern Italy is unknown, but again the numbers add up, surely into the millions over the centuries. Don’t forget the 1.5 million Armenian Christians killed by the Turks during WWI. We do know that over five centuries, vast numbers of Christian boys were kidnapped to become Islamic Janissary mercenaries for the Turks. Add those in, too.
Muslim genocide of Armenians
Muslims prized blonde women for their harems; and so enslaved Slavic women were purchased in the bazaars of the Crimean Caliphate. In Muslim Spain, an annual tribute of 100 Visigothic [blonde] women was required from Spain’s Cantabrian coast.
For decades, 100 virgins per year were required by the Muslim rulers of Spain from the conquered population. The tribute was only stopped when the Spaniards began fighting back — Jihad: Islam’s 1,300 Year War Against Western Civilisation
Add in the death toll from the Reconquista and the numbers climb higher.
Research has shown that the Dark Ages were not caused by the Goths, who eventually assimilated and Christianized:
…the real destroyers of classical civilization were the Muslims. It was the Arab Invasions… which broke the unity of the Mediterranean world and turned the Middle Sea — previously one of the world’s most important trading highways — into a battleground. It was only after the appearance of Islam… that the cities of the West, which depended upon the Mediterranean trade for their survival, began to die. — Islam Caused the Dark Ages
Add in those unknown millions who died as a consequence.
How many know the horrors of the conquest of Malaysia? The Buddhists of Thailand and Malaysia were slaughtered en masse.
When attacked and massacred by the Muslims, the Buddhists initially did not make any attempt to escape from their murderers. They accepted death with an air of fatalism and destiny. And hence they are not around today to tell their story. – History of Jihad.org
We may never know the numbers of dead.
After Muslims came to power in the early 15th century, animist hill peoples eventually disappeared due to their enslavement and ‘incorporation’ into the Muslim population of Malaya, Sumatra, Borneo, and Java via raids, tribute and purchase, especially of children. Java was the largest exporter of slaves around 1500. — Islam Monitor
In the same manner, Islam arrived in the Philippines. Only the appearance of the Spanish stopped a total collapse, and confined Islam to the southern islands.
The coming of the Spanish saved the Philippines from Islam, except for the Southern tip where the population had been converted to Islam.– History of Jihad.org
Again, the number of dead is unknown; but add them to the total.
The animist Filipinos were eager to ally with the Spanish against Islam. In fact, much of Southeast Asia welcomed the Spanish and Portuguese as preferable to Islam.
…from the 17th century successive Thai kings allied themselves with the seafaring Western powers – the Portuguese and the Dutch and succeeded in staving off the threat of Islam from the Muslim Malays and their Arab overlords.– History of Jihad.org
A few galleons and muskets were not enough to conquer Asia. Islam had made the Europeans initially appear as liberators; and to a certain extent they were. Who were the real imperialists?
Even today…
…Malaysian Jihadis are plotting to transform multi-ethnic Malaysia into an Islamic Caliphate, and fomenting trouble in Southern Thailand.– History of Jihad.org
Add this all up. The African victims. The Indian victims. The European victims. Add in the Armenian genocide. Then add in the lesser known, but no doubt quite large number of victims of Eastern Asia. Add in the jihad committed by Muslims against China, which was invaded in 651 AD. Add in the Crimean Khanate predations on the Slavs, especially their women.
Though the numbers are not clear, what is obvious is that Islam is the greatest murder machine in history bar none, possibly exceeding 250 million dead. Possibly one-third to one-half or more of all those killed by war or slavery in history can be traced to Islam; and this is just a cursory examination.
Now consider the over 125 Million women today who have been genitally mutilated for Islamic honor’s sake. In spite of what apologists tell you, the practice is almost totally confined to Islamic areas.
New information from Iraqi Kurdistan raises the possibility that the problem is more prevalent in the Middle East than previously believed and that FGM is far more tied to religion than many Western academics and activists admit. – “Is Female Genital Mutilation an Islamic Problem?” ME Quarterly
Once thought concentrated in Africa, FGM has now been discovered to be common wherever Islam is found.
There are indications that FGM might be a phenomenon of epidemic proportions in the Arab Middle East. Hosken, for instance, notes that traditionally all women in the Persian Gulf region were mutilated. Arab governments refuse to address the problem. — “Is Female Genital Mutilation an Islamic Problem?” ME Quarterly
Remember that this has gone on for 1400 years; and was imposed on a population that had been formerly Christian or pagan.
FGM is practiced on large scale in Islamic Indonesia; and is increasing.
…far from scaling down, the problem of FGM in Indonesia has escalated sharply. The mass ceremonies in Bandung have grown bigger and more popular every year. — Guardian
The horrified British author of that Guardian article is still deluded that Islam does not support FGM, when in fact it is now settled that FGM is a core Islamic practice. Islamic women have been brainwashed to support their own abuse.
Abu Sahlieh further cited Muhammad as saying, “Circumcision is a sunna (tradition) for the men and makruma (honorable deed) for the women.” — “Is Female Genital Mutilation an Islamic Problem?” ME Quarterly
What other tyranny does this? Not even the Nazis mutilated their own women!
Unlike the 20th-century totalitarians whose killing fury consumed themselves, reducing their longevity, Islam paces itself. In the end, though slower, Islam has killed and tortured far more than any other creed, religious or secular. Unlike secular tyranny, Islam, by virtue of its polygamy and sexual predations, reproduces itself and increases.
Other tyrannies are furious infections, which burn hot, but are soon overcome. Islam is a slow terminal cancer, which metastasizes, and takes over. It never retreats. Its methods are more insidious, often imperceptible at first, driven by demographics. Like cancer, excision may be the only cure.
So whenever you read about this or that Israeli outrage — and there may be truth to the complaint — place the news in context. Look whom the Israelis are fighting against. Islam is like nothing else in history.
Mike Konrad is the pen name of an American who is not Jewish, Latin, or Arab. He runs a website, http://latinarabia.com, where he discusses the subculture of Arabs in Latin America. He wishes his Spanish were better.Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/05/the_greatest_murder_machine_in_history.html#ixzz3tm5hPoPT
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook