2 Chron 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
During this patriotic season and celebration of the Independence of America, I am torn and conflicted in many ways. I have my experiences, my family’s emigration, heritage and military service to it, our people, our ‘freedoms’ enjoyed by no other nation, our civil and Constitutional foundation and framework, the blood and lives of my countrymen shed and laid down for it, the traditions of our fathers, etc all come to a head and in conflict against concepts I see in the Bible. America needs to become dependent on God once again.
What is the complete concept that is expressed in the previous passage from 1 Chr 7? It is God speaking to Solomon, the wisest man/leader the world has ever seen about the condition of God’s land and people and what God would do in response the the people’s idolatry and if they fail to repent of their wickedness. This nation that we live in has been greatly blessed by the Creator of the Universe because we have honored Him in the past with obedience to His law and statutes as a people.
2 Chr 7:12-22 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice. 13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. 17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments; 18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel. 19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; 20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations. 21 And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house? 22 And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.
This word evil doesn’t just mean moral impurity, it also means destruction. We know that God is morally perfect and pure so this certainly means of God’s willingness to bring destruction upon the people and the land with great consequences. This is what is currently happening to America. Our land which has been defiled with abortion, sexual deviations like homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophlia, divorce, pornography, fornication, corrupt politics, greed, and false teachers. This has led us into not a backsliding from the faith once delivered to the saints, but is a moral and religious freefall where we see ‘churches’ marching in gay pride parades, approving, and promoting such wickedness even to the children where no standard of conduct is imposed upon anyone because ‘Christians’ have been lied to and convinced that judgment is not allowed in the aforesaid faith. We can’t even examine or judge ourselves, according to them, though the Bible clearly teaches that we should. See webpage here on CHRISTIAN JUDGMENT.
Isa 13:9-13 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Pro 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.
When will our people learn that God is not fooled by our theologies, our pastors, our desire for secret sin, which are an abomination to Him? We have churches filled on every corner, yet we can’t muster a squad of godly men in a city like Nashville, Louisville or even LA to carry the trumpet and banners of the Lord to the enemies of God. We have churches filled with people who have made up a god for themselves. His name is jesus christ. He is another christ, another gospel which the Bible clearly warns against.
May God stay His Hand of Judgment, If my people will…
At memorial in Orlando FL, a cross with rainbow flag after Pulse massacre.
Does God Hear the Prayers of Saints and Sinners? by John McGlone
Besides open air biblical preaching, the next most neglected ministry in the Christian walk is the prayer closet. To pray to God is to worship, intercede, fast, commune, seeking wisdom and guidance about His will for our lives, the lives of the saints and interceding for the sinners alike.
As I was preparing this article examining the idea of whether or not God hears sinners, the murder of 50 homosexuals and serious injuries to 53 others of the Pulse gay bar in Orlando, FL occurred.
The attack of a Muslim against homosexuals is nothing new. He was just being consistent with his murderous religion. Muslims are taught that homosexuals should be thrown from the highest tower of the city, burned at the stake, stoned, etc.
Quran (7:80-84) – “…For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds…. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)” – An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the “rain of stones” on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people’s destruction. (Inexplicably, the story is also repeated in suras 15:74, 27:58 and 29:40).
Quran (7:81) – “Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?” This verse is part of the previous text and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to the Arabic grammar, homosexuality is called the worst sin, while references elsewhere describe other forms of non-marital sex as being “among great sins.”
How does this correlate to Christendom? We see that sodomy is an abomination to God. He hates this vile despicable sexuality because of what it does to the very fabric of His design for family and society. The vast contradictions of the Muslim religion are highlighted by the truths that Jesus taught in the Bible. Though homosexuals are in danger of reprobation, God is able to deliver them if they are willing to surrender to Jesus. The only hope any of us have is for Christ to deliver us from the mouth of hell and our sin that we might live for Him in holiness and truth.
It is interesting to me to find that homosexuals who complain about violence against their community by Muslims, are also willing to be violent toward Christians as they preach. The Christian preacher is simply calling out all sinners from the darkness of sin to the marvelous Light of Jesus Christ. As we often will preach to the homosexuals, “God is an equal opportunity condemner, He judges both homo and hetero sodomites! Both will go to eternal fire” Now, the True and Living God of the Bible desires the sinner to turn and live, so that He may give them mercy that NONE of us deserve.
Another interesting contradiction of the homosexual community is the defense of Islam as a religion of peace. The massacre of homosexuals at the Pulse pervert club, has caused even more confusion from among both groups. The homos are claiming this is just a lone wolf jihadi, the Muslims are claiming they are religion of peace. When will the truth stand in opposition to both groups? I say, when Jesus Christ returns then all liars will have their part in the lake of fire.
Liberal moronic thinkers supporting those who would seek to destroy them…
Back to the point of this article, “Does God hear sinners as they pray?” The plethora of Scripture I have offered here prove that the answer to my question is a resounding, no. God is not willing to hear from any sinner; lukewarm ‘christian, homosexual or Muslim alike until they have had a godly sorrow that has led them to the cross of Jesus Christ in humble confession and repentance to Him as both Lord and Savior. All the Muslim prayers, five times a day, are repetitious nonsense to the True and Living God of the Bible, Jesus Christ. All the homosexual prayers that cry out whenever their flesh is not comforted in this world are not heard as well. In fact, no prayer of any sinner is heard until the prayer of regret about a life lived without God as their Lord.
Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Isa 59:1-3 Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. 3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
Psa_66:20 Blessed be God, which hath not turned away my prayer, nor his mercy from me.[saints]
Psa_80:4 O LORD God of hosts, how long wilt thou be angry against the prayer of thy people?
Psa_141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.
Psa_109:7 When he is judged, let him be found guilty, And let his prayer become sin.
Pro_15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, But the prayer of the upright is His delight.
Pro_15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked, But He hears the prayer of the righteous.
Pro_28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.
Isa_26:16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.
Isa_56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Jer_7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
Jer_11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.
Lam_3:8 Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer.
Lam_3:44 Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that our prayer should not pass through.
Dan_9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
Dan_9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.
Candlelight vigil in solidarity with victims of Pulse Orlando shooting, U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, June 13, 2016.
Dan_9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord’s sake.
Jon_2:7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
Mat_21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mat_21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Mat_23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mar_9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
Mar_11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mar_12:40 Which devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
Luk_1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
Luk_2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luk_5:33 And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?
Luk_6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
Luk_19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Luk_22:45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
Luk_20:47 Which devour widows’ houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
Act_1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Act_2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act_3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act_6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
Act_10:4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Man lights candles atop rainbow flag in solidarity with Pulse Orlando victims, Madrid, Spain, June 12, 2016.
Act_10:31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
Act_12:5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.
Act_16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Act_16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom_10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom_12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
Rom_15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ’s sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
1Co_7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
2Co_1:11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.
2Co_9:14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
Eph_6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Php_1:4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,
Php_1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
Php_4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Col_4:2 Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;
Eph_1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Man looks over impromptu memorial for victims of Pulse Orlando massacre, Sydney, Australia, June 13, 2016.
Col_4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
1Th_1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
1Ti_2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti_4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1Ti_5:5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.
2Ti_1:3 I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;
Phm_1:4 I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers,
Phm_1:22 But withal prepare me also a lodging: for I trust that through your prayers I shall be given unto you.
Heb_5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
1 Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
Jas_5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas_5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
1Pe_3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
1Pe_3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
1Pe_4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
Rev_5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev_8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev_8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
The conclusion of the matter is simple. Either you are a sinner, to whom God is not listening, or you are a saint that God is hearing and moving in your life. Friend, if you call yourself a Christian who is living in known, willful sin, God is not listening to you. His ear is heavy toward you and your sins have separated your God from you. Repent today, lest you die in your sin and go to eternal punishment for it!
In all of its 66 books the Bible never once says that the Earth moves around the sun or rotates on an axis – not even a hint. In contrast there are in essence hundreds of references in which the Scriptures are implicitly, if not explicitly geocentric. Moreover, there is absolutely no Scriptural foundation for the heliocentric position, nor are there any formal scientific experiments which prove it. The faith based essentials of heliocentricity (stationary sun and a moving earth which is both rotating AND orbiting) have NEVER been proved by any scientific experiment. In fact ALL the scientific experiments clearly point to a stationary earth, a fact which is openly, albeit reluctantly, admitted by heliocentrists. Thus the heliocentric position is neither founded upon a Scriptural or true scientific basis, but rather it is admittedly chosen over the geocentric position more for philosophical reasons, especially due to the moral ramifications of the earth occupying such a favored position.
Rather than simply believing what God has revealed in the testimony of the Scriptures regarding the sun and earth, the unconscious but tragic epistemology of most is – We know what the Bible really MEANS regarding the sun and the earth because of what science DECLARES regarding the sun and the earth. Are you willing to take an honest look at the testimony of God Himself revealed in His word regarding the nature of the cosmos? If you are His disciple, that is indeed your hearts desire and the declaration of Scripture is the only evidence needed when considering any subject of life.
“He that is of God heareth God’s words…” John 8:47
1. The Foundation of the Scriptures
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2
This Scripture is absolutely foundational to one’s worldview
The Earth was created on day one as the focal point and center of creation.
Consider – If the only visible created material entity at the end of the first day of Creation was the Earth, then the Earth was created as the very center of the universe.
Moreover, there was nothing which the Earth would have been able to orbit at this time and there is no reason whatsoever to assume it was rotating at 1000 mph.
The sun and the other heavenly bodies were created on the fourth day. Since they are peripheral to the Earth, and their purpose is that of serving the Earth, it is logical to assume they revolve around the Earth.
The sun, planets and stars were placed IN the firmament which was spread out as a tent (Isaiah 40:22) and placed AROUND the Earth.
The Earth is clearly distinct from both the firmament of heaven and the heavenly bodies placed in the firmament.
Heliocentricity however removes this distinction set forth in Genesis chapter [1], and makes the Earth merely another celestial body in the universe.
The Geocentric position is thus clearly the most spiritually logical position to take.
Furthermore, God is most glorified in the geocentric model as it is in accordance with his word, His unique purposes in the Earth and the indubitable revelation of Himself to mankind through Earth’s favored position.
2. The Scriptural Declaration of the Sun’s Rising and Setting
He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down. Psalm 104:19
The first portion of this verse is clearly not poetical, thus the second portion should not be interpreted as strictly poetical either.
Most who balk at Geocentricity posit that where the Bible speaks of the sun rising and setting it is thus stated because it is seen this way from man’s perspective. However in this verse the Scriptures declare that the going down of the sun is an action that is actually occurring from the sun’s perspective..
Thus both the moon and sun are said to observe the appointments of their Creator.
The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. Genesis 19:23
And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. Genesis 28:11
And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. Genesis 32:31
But Moses’ hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. Exodus 17:12
If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. Exodus 22:3
And when the sun is down, he shall be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things; because it is his food. Leviticus 22:7
And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah. Numbers 2:3
The two tribes and the half tribe have received their inheritance on this side Jordan near Jericho eastward, toward the sunrising. Numbers 34:15 Then Moses severed three cities on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. Deuteronomy 4:41
And they possessed his land, and the land of Og king of Bashan, two kings of the Amorites, which were on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. Deuteronomy 4:47
Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? Deuteronomy 11:30
But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt. Deuteronomy 16:6
But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp again. Deuteronomy 23:11
In any case thou shalt deliver him the pledge again when the sun goeth down, that he may sleep in his own raiment, and bless thee: and it shall be righteousness unto thee before the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 24:13
At his day thou shalt give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he is poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the LORD, and it be sin unto thee. Deuteronomy 24:15
From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. Joshua 1:4
Until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD’S servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. Joshua 1:15
And it came to pass at the time of the going down of the sun, that Joshua commanded, and they took them down off the trees, and cast them into the cave wherein they had been hid, and laid great stones in the cave’s mouth, which remain until this very day. Joshua 10:27
Now these are the kings of the land, which the children of Israel smote, and possessed their land on the other side Jordan toward the rising of the sun, from the river Arnon unto mount Hermon, and all the plain on the east: Joshua 12:1
And the land of the Giblites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrising, from Baalgad under mount Hermon unto the entering into Hamath. Joshua 13:5
And turned from Sarid eastward toward the sunrising unto the border of Chislothtabor, and then goeth out to Daberath, and goeth up to Japhia. Joshua 19:12
And then the coast turneth westward to Aznothtabor, and goeth out from thence to Hukkok, and reacheth to Zebulun on the south side, and reacheth to Asher on the west side, and to Judah upon Jordan toward the sunrising. Joshua 19:34
And Gideon the son of Joash returned from battle before the sun was up. Judges 8:13
And it shall be, that in the morning, as soon as the sun is up, thou shalt rise early, and set upon the city: and, behold, when he and the people that is with him come out against thee, then mayest thou do to them as thou shalt find occasion. Judges 9:33
And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? and what is stronger than a lion? And he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle. Judges 14:18
And when all the people came to cause David to eat meat while it was yet day, David sware, saying, So do God to me, and more also, if I taste bread, or ought else, till the sun be down. 2 Samuel 3:35
And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain. 2 Samuel 23:4
And there went a proclamation throughout the host about the going down of the sun, saying, Every man to his city, and every man to his own country. 1 Kings 22:36
And the battle increased that day: howbeit the king of Israel stayed himself up in his chariot against the Syrians until the even: and about the time of the sun going down he died. 2 Chronicles 18:34
So we laboured in the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning till the stars appeared. Nehemiah 4:21
Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Job 9:7
The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Psalm 50:1
The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens. Psalm 104:22
From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD’S name is to be praised. Psalm 113:3
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. Ecclesiastes 1:5
I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay. Isaiah 41:25
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isaiah 45:6
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. Isaiah 59:19
Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him: and he laboured till the going down of the sun to deliver him. Daniel 6:14
And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: Amos 8:9
And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live. Jonah 4:8
Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. Micah 3:6
Thy crowned are as the locusts, and thy captains as the great grasshoppers, which camp in the hedges in the cold day, but when the sun ariseth they flee away, and their place is not known where they are. Nahum 3:17
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 1:11
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:45
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. Matthew 13:6
And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils. Mark 1:32
But when, the sun was up it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. Mark 4:6
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. Mark 16:2
Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. Luke 4:40
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Ephesians 4:26
For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways. James 1:11
If God wanted to reveal to us the sun actually rises and sets, how else could He have said it?
[ A general rule of hermeneutics is that we are not to depart from the literal and obvious sense of a passage, except where reason makes it untenable or spiritual necessity requires it. Thus since there is NO Scriptural or natural proof that a literal meaning is not implied much less impossible regarding the plain motion of the sun, we must take it as plainly stated in the Scriptures. Furthermore, the Scriptures have been given unto us as a Revelation from God. As a Revelation, they reveal to us the truth and thus go beyond what mere man can know by natural observation. If the Scriptures were a retelling of what man saw, then they would cease to be Revelation, for there is nothing revelatory about the language of mere appearance.]
3. The Sun Moving or Standing Still
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. Joshua 10:12-13
If one receives the word of God as the word of God, the evidence in support of a geocentric model is indisputable here.
Joshua plainly commanded the sun to stand still. He did not order the earth to cease rotating nor did he qualify his statement with the divine knowledge that the sun was merely made to appear stationary.
It is only possible to stop something that is moving. This indicates that the sun is indeed moving, while the earth consequently stands still.
Perhaps the greatest proof the sun actually moves is the fact that we have the confirming narrative of the Spirit of God who plainly declares the sun actually stopped moving. THE SPIRIT OF GOD SAID…”And the sun stood still…So the sun stood still…” Joshua 10:13
Is the Bible the word of God or not? Indeed! Did God himself deceive us regarding reality? Absolutely not!
It is of the utmost spiritual importance that one bow to the authority of the didactic narrative of God’s word; THIS IS THE HEART AND MARROW OF BEING SUBMITTED TO THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST! For if one ever autonomously imposes their understanding thereon, they usurp the lordship of Christ, undermine the very foundation of Christianity and knowledge, and they open a pandora’s box of skepticism whereby any other didactic statement of the Scripture can be dismissed in the name of “common sense” or scientism.
God has also according to His divine proof criteria granted us the required [3] witnesses to establish the factuality of this miraculous event: The clear narrative of the Spirit of God, the testimony within the book of Jasher, and Habakkuk 3:11 which confirms the sun actually stood still.
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. Psalm 19:5-6
Whilst no one should deny that poetic language is used in Psalm 19:4-5 which speaks of the sun as a “bridegroom coming out of his chamber,” it is obvious that said metaphorical language is being used to enhance the reality of the sun’s movement around the earth and not to dilute or deny it.
Since the fact that the sun revolves around the earth has already been established by the historical and didactic narratives of Scripture (e.g., Joshua 10:10-14), the poetical passages of Scripture that speak of the sun moving around the earth must be taken as factual statements with an enhanced description for literary effect (e.g., “as a man running a race”). This is certainly true of the Psalms where most of the geocentric passages occur. In fact, Psalms is the most quoted book in the New Testament for verification of historical and doctrinal truth, even though every Psalm is in actuality a Hebrew poem.
Psalm 19 is a Messianic Psalm which likens Christ, the Bridegroom, to the sun (“His going forth…”) and then uses the analogy in connection with the ensuing declaration of the sure testimony of the word of God.
Why would God use a figurative fable as a confirming witness to all the earth regarding the revelation of His very existence to all mankind and glory as declared in this Psalm (v. 1-4)
Why would God use a figurative fable to describe the actual coming of Christ, the Bridegroom, for His bride (v. 5-6)
Why would God use a figurative fable to testify of the absolute perfection and trustworthiness of His word which is set forth in this Psalm (v. 7-8)
It would be the height of folly to use an analogy which is actually false, only “appearing” to be true, and then declare that through this falsity set forth in God’s word and particularly in this Psalm that the testimony of God’s word to man is absolutely perfect and sure.
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. Isaiah 38:8
THE SPIRIT OF GOD SAID…”So the sun returned ten degrees.”
Moreover, if it had been only the shadow on Ahaz’s dial which moved, it would not have fallen under the notice of other nations, or have been the subject of their inquiry, as it was of the Babylonians ~ “Howbeit in the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to enquire of the wonder that was done in the land, God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart” 2 Chronicles 32:31
So let all thine enemies perish, O LORD: but let them that love him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. And the land had rest forty years. Judges 5:31
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isaiah 13:10
4. The Earth is at Rest
[Every mention in the Scriptures of the Earth “moving” is an anomaly in reference to judgment]
The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Psalm 93:1
There are very few options available regarding the meaning of the “establishment of the world” if one faithfully follows this analogy and thus seeks to make a legitimate comparison to God. The world cannot refer to the political machinations of the nations, for they shift quite frequently. It could not refer to the whole universe, since if the universe were moved, to where would it move? The best way the Psalmist’s analogy can have its intended effect is if an object exists that is unmoved in the midst of all other objects that are moving.
For example, if the Psalmist were referring to an unmoving earth, then the image displayed by Psalm 93:1 would be most logical and accurate, for the Earth would be the only body at rest in the midst of a sea of moving bodies in the heavens. Moreover, according to Genesis chapter 1 this the the exact impression we are given.
If we interpret this statement thus, the Earth would be the foundational reference point in Creation; the only immovable object, and thus the best example to picture of the immutability of God himself.
More to the point is that Psalm 93:2 adds that God’s throne is also “established.” Logically, if his throne does not move then the world cannot move either.
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. Ecclesiastes 1:4-7
The language of motion (14 verbs) employed here is literal in regards to the activity of ALL the other entities mentioned (i.e. the wind and rivers.) So why would the pattern of this passage be broken and the sun and the earth arbitrarily have figurative language used for them?
And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest. Zechariah 1:11
Years before, Isaiah had prophesied of the dissolution of the present creation, including the earth (Isaiah 34:4, 24:19). Other scripture writers had done the same (Psalm 102:25, 26, etc.) But the “they” in Zechariah 1:11 (the riders of the red, speckled, and white horses mentioned in the eighth verse) reported that the times had not yet arrived for the dissolution of the earth, thus indicating that this is the state of the earth at a time prior to that time of judgment.
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 1 Chronicles 16:30
Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Job 9:6 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Psalm 46:2 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. Psalm 96:10
The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved. Psalm 99:1
Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. Psalm 104:5
Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. Psalm 119:90
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. Isaiah 13:13
And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. Isaiah 24:18
The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. Isaiah 24:19
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. Isaiah 24:20
Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; Isaiah 49:8
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. 1 Corinthians 8:13
[Although I would concede the verses are not all necessarily and absolutely cosmological in nature, who is to say that they do not communicate a cosmological truth? It is undeniable however that they do serve a very important purpose by which they communicate to us what the Bible DOES HAVE TO SAY about the earth and the obvious message here is that the earth is neither rotating or orbiting. Surely God knew this would be an issue. Would He communicate over and over that the sun, the heavens and stars are indeed moving, give us the obvious general sense that the earth is stationary, not even once giving even a hint it is moving, and then be pleased we disregard all of this which is plainly communicated and believe modern God rejecting scientists who do not even have one experiment to show otherwise, only a theory. I trow not!]
5. The Circuits
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. Psalm 19:6
The heavenly bodies (sun, stars, and heavens) are specifically said to move in a course or circuit. This language is never used for the earth. Conversely, the earth is said over and over to have “foundations”, to “abide”, be “stable” and “unmoved” while this language is NEVER used for the sun and stars. Selah!
Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. Job 22:14
They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera. Judges 5:20
6. Direction (Up/Down/Under)
[Consider, for example, the many references to “the heavens above” and “the earth below.” One is forced to ask: “Above or below what? Above the earth and below the heavens?” Similarly, heaven is spoken of as “up” and earth as “down.” Other such direction-expressing pairs of words exist in the Bible. For example, there is “ascending” with “descending,” and ”over” with “beneath.” Likewise, the many times that the term “host of heaven” is used shows the stars and angels to be geocentrically disposed. When the height of heaven is mentioned, it is mentioned as measured from the earth’s center (e.g., Isaiah 55:9) and from the earth’s surface (Psalm 103:11). Such references occur everywhere in the Bible and they are certainly not heliocentric or Copernican. God’s geometry is clearly geocentric.]
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Acts 1:9-10
Jesus went straight up from Jerusalem which would be in accord with the fact that God’s throne is directly above Jerusalem.
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. Acts 7:55
In like manner God’s throne is seen by Stephen who is in Jerusalem and looks directly up into the heavens.
This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee. Deuteronomy 2:25
And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them. Deuteronomy 7:24
Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven, and bless thy people Israel, and the land which thou hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey. Deuteronomy 26:15
The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven. Deuteronomy 29:20
And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. Joshua 2:11
Return, we beseech thee, O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold, and visit this vine; Psalm 80:14
What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? Ecclesiastes 1:3
7. General Scriptures
And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. Genesis 28:12
The ladder could only be steady if the earth neither rotated neither orbited
If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee. Deuteronomy 30:4
The use of the word “outmost” implies that heaven is bounded
And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. 1 Chronicles 21:16
Geocentric because of the implication of immobility between earth and heaven
Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? Job 38:33
Geocentricity declares the dominion of the ordinances of heaven is set in the earth.
The astral bodies were made for the earth, to give light upon it, for the measurement of time, and for seasons. As such, the dominion over the ordinances of heaven must be on earth, the body for which they were created. This is the reverse of astrology which sets the dominion of the earth to the stars. Indeed modern science also sets the stars – the sun in particular- to rule the earth.
Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him. Psalm 68:4
This Scripture implies that the heavens move
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? Isaiah 66:1
The plumbline shows that salvation comes down to the earth; note the symbolism of the plummet, being made of lead which is considered the basest of metals, residing closest to the earth, represents man who cannot save himself (Ephesians 2:8-9).
The second view allows moral relativism, especially if “all is relative.” At this point there is a connection with the theory of relativity in physics which, among other things, is designed to account for why the earth seems to be standing still at the dynamic center of the universe.
2 Chronicles 9:18 suggests that the footstool was fastened to the throne. “And there were six steps to the throne, with a footstool of gold, which were fastened to the throne, and stays on each side of the sitting place, and two lions standing by the stays.”
If Heliocentrism were true this would violate the type and God would be receiving a perpetual “foot massage.” 🙂
Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more: Amos 7:7-8
If the earth is rotating, let alone the profusion of other superimposed motions, a plumbline at the Temple from the mercy seat would seldom, if ever, point to God’s throne with New Jerusalem. Such a line, when seen from the throne, would aimlessly flail about. But in Scripture, this line points to God’s throne, thus showing the fixity of the earth with respect to the third heaven.
That God’s third heaven is fixed, we shall have to take at his word, for only God the creator can supply the reference. The plumbline, in turn, holds the plummet, a lead ball. In Isaiah 28:17 this plumbline over Jerusalem connects Jesus (verses 9-13) with the righteous on earth. In Amos 7:7 the LORD shows Amos the plumbline of Isaiah 28 and prophesies that the promised tribulational desolation (verse 9) ”will not again pass by them any more.”
The “wall” of verse 7 upon which stands the LORD must be the temple wall showing the cosmological heavenly alignment of the place where God puts his name. Zechariah calls attention to this plumbline when prophesying the rebuilding of the temple (Zechariah 4:10) and associates the plummet with the cosmic events of Revelation 1 through the seven candles, “…for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”
The plumbline shows that salvation comes down, as in Psalm 19, to the earth; note the symbolism of the plummet, being made of lead which is considered the basest of metals, residing closest to the earth, represents man who cannot save himself (Ephesians 2:8-9). The plumbline points from earth to heaven, (Jesus being the plumbline and our way to heaven,) and it also points from heaven to earth, bringing judgment upon Jerusalem, as we see in II Kings 21:13. Note that the word “line” in II Kings 21:13, Psalm 19, and many other places is a geocentric notion in that it is the geocentric, diurnally rotating heavens that produce the lines.
8. The Glory and Resurrection of Christ and the Rising of the Sun
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 1:11 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. Malachi 4:2
Jesus is referred to as the “Sun” of righteousness who arises. If the rising of the sun in figurative then this analogy regarding the foundational doctrine of Christianity, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, is undermined.
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. Mark 16:9 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19
The day star is the sun which is a type of Christ. Why would God make this analogy regarding our spiritual growth if the sun only appears to rise?
9. The Bible is clearly a Geocentric book
John Wesley declared that the Copernican system “tended toward infidelity.”
John Owen stated that the Copernican model was a “delusive and arbitrary hypothesis, contrary to Scripture.”
Matthew Henry stated…”day and night, summer and winter; which are interchanged by the motion of the sun.”
“A certain new astrologer who wanted to prove that the earth moves and not the sky, the sun and the moon…I believe the holy Scriptures, for Joshua commanded the sun to stand still and not the earth.” Luther
Furthermore, Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo knew full well that their deviant theory was contrary to the Scriptures.
“In questions concerning the natural sciences Holy Writ must occupy the last place.” Galileo
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. “ Isaiah 8:20
Geocentric Animation of planets, moon, with earth centered. NOTE: This is based on orbital globes for illustration
Br. John’s Thoughts in Short
I want to thank Br. Charlie for his extensive research and article on this important subject. In all my studies of the Bible I have never seen anything that would poetically, figuratively, or literally show the heliocentric model as true. If I trust God versus men, then all the ‘scientific’ information that men produce to disprove God or His Word I flatly reject. I know, I know, we have pictures, videos, etc that ‘prove’ the world’s helio position. I have the Word of God which is pure and more precious than gold or silver which reproves such thinking.
Jesus taught we are to love God with our minds. This is a part of the first of the two Greatest commandments which fulfill the law.
Mat_22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mar_12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Rom_12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Jer_23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
The world scorns, mocks, ridicules, and shames most of the Christian worldview. When we go out preaching to the lost we hear things like; 1. you people believe in talking snakes and donkeys? 2. Where did Cain get his wife? 3. Where is Jesus’ appearing after all these millennium? 4. Don’t you believe in ‘science’; evolution, big bang, etc? 5. How is it loving that God throw people into eternal fire forever? 6. God loves everybody, no matter what! 7. God if you’re real, strike me dead with lightning! These kind of carnal, worldly philosophies most believers reject very quickly. Why do we trust sinners who run most of our universities, high, middle, and elementary schools with the intellectual, spiritual , physical, and career development of our children?
Prov_22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
preaching at Univ. of Louisville to humanistic and evolutionary students
I had been warned by a dear brother when I first posted a link to Charlie’s article some months ago that the geocentric model will lead to flat earth views. He was right, it did, but I am not blindly accepting that, just examining what is a very controversial yet interesting subject. See the link below for that article…
Beware, Rob Skiva the primary author of this article, does not believe the trinity.
I was thankful to be invited to the Confronting the Devil Podcast with Kevin Collier. His excitement about the open air ministry was great and gives me hope for the body of believers who have been fearful or ignorant of how to preach to the lost for the glory of Jesus Christ.
Here is Vol 1 of that podcast, please like, comment, and share with your friends, family, churches, and enemies! Thank you.
This teaching by Mike Bradley is both timely and necessary in this dark age in which we find ourselves. I have found Mike’s insights and teaching style to be edifying and insightful by the Holy Ghost and God’s Word. Enjoy this great teaching from a small home family fellowship in Palawan, Republic of the Philippines.
Is Progressive Sanctification True?
By Mike Bradley
This morning’s home church went well. I am so impressed, seeing both my wife and teenage daughter taking notes and with their bible open! Praise the Lord! It’s such a joy to see this kind of attentiveness to the things of God and that we have a shared vision in our home to walk in obedience and holiness before the Lord.
Today’s topic was three-part… “A scriptural response to the Augustinian error of ‘Original Sin’, “Do Genuine Believers Crucify The Flesh Daily?” and “A Scriptural Response to the Error of ‘Progressive Sanctification’.” These three false beliefs have contributed to many professing believers thinking they can continue in sin and still be saved when in fact, they may have never repented from sin to begin with, and thus, were never saved at all.
Any good Christian husband should both teach and demonstrate to his family how to obey God and walk in holiness, so these three false beliefs need to be preemptively dismantled so as to not be obstacles to obedience. But first, let’s define some terms. What is the ‘flesh’? The ‘flesh’ is another term for the acquired (not inherited) ‘sinful nature’ that characterizes all unrepentant, spiritually unregenerate sinners.
Sinful Nature/ Original Sin
Who is willing to contradict God when He describes our pre-born state as….
“I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works…” (Psalm 139:14 KJV)
We are born with a nature that is worthy of praising God for, a good nature, not an evil nature. It is this good nature which became corrupted when we chose to sin. Even in the New Testament, under the inspiration of the Spirit, the apostle Paul describes mankind as….
(1Co 11:7 KJV) ….the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
The Bible says in….
(Isa 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
We have not been forced by Adam to sin, nor is God responsible for our sinful nature, but we have ‘turned every one to his own way’. Sin is something we have done, not Adam. We are responsible for our choice to sin. Not Adam. Not God. Not Satan. You.
The bible says….
(Ecc 7:29 ESV) See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.
Neither Adam nor God can be blamed for men sinning, because it is men themselves who seek out ‘many schemes’, implying sinful acts.
We have brought our sinful nature upon ourselves due to our own choice to disobey God at some time in the past, and we have been in need of deliverance, of salvation, or spiritual rescue from the wrath of God and from sin itself ever since the first time we disobeyed God.
So, we see that our nature was created by God and that it was good. We see that the flesh is a sinful nature that is acquired after our birth which predisposes a person toward rebellion. And rebellion is when we choose to sin, which leads to spiritual death.
(Rom 6:23 KJV) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Up to this point I’ve used the terms ‘flesh’ as synonymous with a ‘sinful nature’. There are many who believe we have a sinful nature that is inherited (the Augustinian error), while others believe we don’t have a sinful nature at all (sinners in denial). But we know there is a sinful nature that is acquired, not inherited. For example…. (caps mine for emphasis)…
(Eph 2:3 KJV) among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and WERE BY NATURE children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
And we see the antithesis of the sinful nature in the ‘divine nature’ that only spiritually regenerate souls have. For example….
(2Peter 1:4 ESV) by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
To be a partaker of the ‘divine nature’ is what a genuinely saved person enjoys, the freedom from the influence of a sinful desire.
(Jas 3:9 KJV) Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
The word “similitude’ means ‘likeness’. So, far removed from the time of Adam, we see that God still creates us in His likeness. Since God is not sinful, it follows that contrary to Calvinists led by the 4th century heretic Augustine, God does not create us as sinful beings.
Notably, all three verses use the same Greek word for “nature”, which is
φύσις
phusis
‘foosis’
This word for ‘nature’ has a primary meaning of ‘lineal descent’, but is also used figuratively to mean a ‘disposition’. The latter meaning is preferred here.
Since we do not inherit a divine nature through physical inheritance, it follows that we also do not inherit sin through physical inheritance.
Now people will sometimes say, “oh, but the bible says we were brought forth in sin!”….No, it doesn’t.
(Psa 51:5) Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 51:5 is clearly saying that David was conceived in sin, not that he was born sinful.
The bible also says….
(Psa 53:3 KJV) Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Gone back? From what? If they became altogether filthy, what were they before?
The bible say’s man’s heart is evil from his youth (not his birth). Caps mine for emphasis.
(Gen 8:21) And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil FROM HIS YOUTH; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
(Jer 22:21 KJV) I spake unto thee in thy prosperity; but thou saidst, I will not hear. This hath been thy manner FROM THY YOUTH, that thou obeyedst not my voice.
(Jer 32:30 KJV) For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have only done evil before me FROM THEIR YOUTH: for the children of Israel have only provoked me to anger with the work of their hands, saith the LORD.
Our ‘youth’ is not when we were born. It’s the time after we are born. It’s a time when we first disobeyed God and felt shame or guilt for it. A baby doesn’t have that capacity. Children do not acquire a sinful nature until they comprehend accountability for their actions.
Perhaps I will go into more detail on additional refutations of the false doctrine of “original sin” in the future, but for now, we will return to the main point of the study.
WHY WOULD GENUINE BELIEVERS CRUCIFY THE FLESH?
Crucifying the flesh was supposed to have already happened.
(Gal 5:24 KJV) And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
‘Have crucified’….past tense. It already happened…or should have happened. And how can you be Christ’s if you repeatedly crucify the flesh? The Spirit-inspired word says of the believer…
(Rom 6:14 KJV) For sin shall not have dominion over you….
If you’re repeatedly crucifying the flesh, then you’re still under the dominion of sin. Obviously, some have been delivered from the power of darkness…Others have not.
(Col 1:13 KJV) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son
If Jesus has delivered you from the power of darkness, why are you still crucifying the flesh daily? According to the bible, our ‘old self’ was crucified a long time ago.
(Rom 6:6 KJV) We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
Anyone who claims to have died with Christ should also be declaring they are set free from sin, because that is one of the reasons Jesus died on the cross.
(Rom 6:7 KJV) For one who has died has been set free from sin.
Again, past tense. The believer ‘has been’ set free from sin It does not repeatedly happen because it was supposed to have already happened. If you’re still crucifying the flesh, then it was never killed. Thus, you haven’t been set free from sin.
The bible says….
(Rom 8:6 KJV) “For to be carnally minded is death.” And…
(Rom 8:13 KJV) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
If you’re crucifying the flesh daily, it’s apparent that you’re in the flesh daily, and thus, still spiritually dead. How can you claim to be Christ’s if you’re spiritually dead every day? p
According to the author of Hebrews, your sins were purged already.
(Heb 1:3 ESV) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
If your sins have been purged already, why are you still crucifying them as if you still have them?
Speaking to the Corinthian believers, apostle Paul says….
(1 Corinthians 6:11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
They already were sanctified. It already happened.
This is the predicament that believers in the modern ‘churchy’ church are in. They claim to ‘crucify the flesh’ daily, but are unaware that their sins should have been purged in a one-time occurrence when they first repented…..if they repented. Their criteria for being ‘Christ’s’ is not the word of God in its entirety, but ‘faith alone’. The problem is, the word of God demands more than just ‘faith alone’.
What must a professing ‘Christian’ who has either not repented, is disobedient and otherwise still walking in sin do? Under the inspiration of the Spirit, the apostle Paul says…
(Rom 13:12 KJV) The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
(Rom 13:13 KJV) Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
(Rom 13:14 KJV) But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
The bible is teaching that to mortify the deeds of the flesh, we must ‘walk properly’. What is ‘walking properly’? To walk as Jesus walked. In obedience. An unregenerate, unsaved person doesn’t walk as Jesus walked, but a repentant, saved from sin and born again believer does.
The bible here also says to ‘Put on’ the Lord Jesus Christ ‘ and ‘make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires’. In other words, stop sinning.
(1Jn 1:5 KJV) This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Jesus said…
(Joh 8:12 KJV) ….”I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
If you repent from sin (turn away from sin), follow Jesus (which is to obey Him) and abide in Him with an enduring faith, your way will be lighted. You will not stumble because you will see where you’re going. If your eyes are open, and you’re spiritually born again, you’ll see the kingdom of God and will by the grace of God, be able to avoid sin and ultimately, overcome the world.
So instead of sinning daily and then crucifying the flesh daily, repent from sin and follow Jesus. If you do this, you won’t have to make excuses like ‘God is still working on me’ or ‘I just need to crucify the flesh daily!’.
AGAINST PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION
I then prepared my family to respond to the error of ‘progressive sanctification’ with the word of God. Progressive sanctification is the belief that one’s cleansing of sins is an ongoing work that happens as one repeatedly sins, confesses and (supposedly) repents over and over. Finally, at some time in the future (never soon) a breakthrough is supposed to happen and they finally become ‘sanctified’ or in some cases, they believe God finishes the work after they die. This is completely against what the bible teaches.
Jesus died to save us from sin itself. We died with Him through faith and we were raised with Him as well, in newness and purity in heart, having been purged of sins and sanctified. To believe that our sanctification is incomplete at the time we first believe on Jesus implies that His work on the cross was insufficient. God forbid such a belief! But what does the bible say?
(Act 20:32) And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among ALL OF THEM WHICH ARE SANCTIFIED.
“All them which are sanctified” are genuine believers, sanctified in the present tense. They are sanctified in their nature. It’s already happened.
(Act 26:18 KJV) To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Jesus is speaking here, explaining to Paul the reason for sending him to the Gentile people (the non-Jewish nations), clearly indicating that it is faith in Jesus that sanctifies a person, not a life-long process of repeatedly sinning, confessing and repenting….sinning, confessing and repenting etc etc.
(1 Cor 1:2 KJV) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that ARE SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
There are some at Corinth who were not sanctified, as evidenced by Paul’s correcting the Corinthians of sexual immorality, false tongues and other spiritual abuses going on in that church. And there were some who “ARE” sanctified.
(1 Cor 6:11 KJV) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye ARE SANCTIFIED, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Again, some WERE unsanctified, still doing the kingdom prohibiting sins mentioned in 1 Cor 6:9-10, but at the time Paul was penning this letter, they “ARE” sanctified, present tense. Their present state as some who are genuine believers is a state of being sanctified already.
(Heb 2:11 KJV) For both he that sanctifieth and they who ARE SANCTIFIED are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
There is Jesus who sanctifies, and there are those ‘brethren’, genuine believers, who “ARE SANCTIFIED”, present tense.
(Heb 10:10 KJV) By the which will we ARE SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Again, present tense, indicating their present state.
(Heb 10:14 KJV) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that ARE SANCTIFIED.
Again, present tense, indicating one’s present condition of being in a sanctified state.
(Jude 1:1 KJV) Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that ARE SANCTIFIED by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
The ‘called’ are also the sanctified, present tense, indicating their present sanctified state. For them, it’s already happened. There is no further sanctification. They’ve already believed in Jesus’ work on the cross, which through their faith evidenced by deeds worthy of repentance, sanctifies them.
Thanks for making it this far, if you did. May the grace of God be with you.
(Tit 2:11) For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
(Tit 2:12) training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
For those who know they are unsaved, unsanctified and still a slave to sin and on the way to hell fire, I would encourage you to repent from all sin. If you’re sincere, you will, and you’ll be blessed for it. And cry out to Jesus, beg Him to forgive you. If you’re sincere, He will. Then, know Jesus by following Him in an enduring, obedient faith.
Closing Thoughts by Br. John McGlone
In reading Mike’s teaching about the false concept of ‘progressive’ sanctification, what we are really trying to understand is progressive maturation. With the thought of maturation in place. my next thought is what about progressive reprobation?
What is Progressive Maturation?
Progressive maturation comes with the study of God’s Word, sincerely seeking to live holy, rejecting bad doctrines, good/bad spiritual experiences, etc. As we grow in the grace and knowledge of God’s will for our life we adjust our thinking and behaviors based upon our personal convictions that the Holy Ghost gives us personally.
Some examples of progressive maturation in my own life are: 1. stopping smoking about a week after I became a believer. When I was convicted about this I was doing a Bible study while puffing on a cigarette. 2. Another is speeding about 5 mph over the limit as my practice for almost 20 years as a Christian. A brother mentioned to me why wouldn’t I obey that ordinance of man, and the Holy Ghost convicted me. I have not been perfect in this but every time I catch myself I bring my speed back in line with the posted limit. I don’t condemn others about this, but will openly discuss my convictions. 3. My bad thinking that, “…love covers a multitude of sin.” meant that I could ignore what I believe is sin in another brother’s life. I matured and realized that I must deal with those kind of uncomfortable situations and that if the person repents then that love to warn them has covered the sin. Ignoring sin in our life or anyone else’s is to allow and bring greater destruction in the person’s life.
What is Progressive Reprobation?
This is a very important concept that I hope to do a fuller teaching later, Lord willing. Every converted, born again of the Holy Spirit believer on the planet are under what I term ‘probation’. What I mean by that is that we were former criminals(sinners), that have come to the court of the Ancient of Days in our spirit, made a confession of our crimes, and asked to be forgiven, and then trusted the Lamb of God to wash us clean. He then probated or set aside our record of crimes by passing over them through the propitiation of the blood of Jesus Christ. This began our faith walk. Now, while we journey down this narrow and difficult path which leads to life we begin to do our former criminal activity, we grieve the Mediator and the Holy Ghost by which we had been saved from our sins. As they distance themselves from our unholiness, they are still desiring to bring conviction of the leaven that has begun to permeate our life. Sin brings forth death!
Comparing Relative Motion Between Helio vs. GeoCentric Models
By Rob Skiba with introduction by John McGlone
INTRODUCTION
I have been pondering these perplexing issues of flat earth, geocentric views for over a year now. I think the geocentricity of the earth is clearly laid out in the Bible and is still mathematically valid according to the Ptolemaic model. This of course, then leads to the other main point which is brought into question by the first argument which is the shape of the earth; sphere, flat, oval, orb, or what? If geocentricity is true then all other ‘scientific’ assertions about the origins of the universe come into question. From a Christian worldview two major ‘scientific’ views are already rejected that is Darwinistic evolutionary theory, and the big bang theory. Christendom has no problem rejecting those things and being called fools for doing so as the evidence is so clear within our reach. Flat earthers are always challenged to send a rocket up and take videos and pictures which would prove the view. Of course, they can’t afford to do so nor do most have the technical know how to get it done. I have reposted a primary writing of Rob Skiva, it is his hard work that caused me to pause at the plethora of Scripture he uses to support his arguments and conclusions. This same stumping of my intellect happened when I first read and then believed Charlie Kennon’s article on geocentricity, which is linked HERE. DISCLAIMER: I am not a flat earther, simply investigating the claims of the worldview. I was a member of the U.S. Navy as a QMC(SW) Chief Quartermaster, which is a job specialty in navigation. I have been to both hemispheres in every major ocean of the world. I used ‘spherical’ trigonometry for many years to safely navigate multi billion dollar warships all over the planet.
A warning from me, Rob Skiva, the primary author here does not believe the trinity
ALLOWING THE BIBLE TO SPEAK FOR ITSELF by Rob Skiva
Below are a number of Bible verses without commentary. Unless otherwise noted, all of the Scriptures are taken from the KJV. Pretending you have never heard of a globe or even a flat earth before, let’s just allow the Bible to speak for itself. Read them over a couple of times, asking the Holy Spirit to reveal to you what they mean. Without forcing an interpretation based on preconceived notions, meditate on them and ask yourself, “What is the Bible really showing me concerning the nature of the heavens, the earth, the sun, moon and stars?” Then, in the next section after this one, I will give my commentary on these Scriptures, revealing what I believe they are saying to me.
The Scriptures below are arranged by topics in order to set the stage for what will follow. I have placed the book of Job before Genesis as many (if not most) scholars believe it is the oldest book of the Bible. And I have also emphasized words in bold for us to consider as we read. This is by no means an exhaustive list of Scripture. It is essentially just a first run, which I will continue to add to as I find more in the future.
Scriptures concerning the nature of the heavens/sky above and their relationship to the earth:
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.
Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmamentHeaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Psalm 104:
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
Amos 9:6 (NASB) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavensAnd has foundedHis vaulted dome over the earth,
He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Scriptures concerning the nature of the earth below the firmament:
Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Genesis 1:
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.
2 Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.
1 Chronicles 16:30Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96: 9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.
Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psalm 104:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. 6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psalm 136:
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever. Proverbs 8:
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.
Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.
Scriptures concerning the nature of the sun, moon and stars:
Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Psalms 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
Psalm 136:
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Joshua 10:13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isaiah 38:8Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
Habakkuk 3:11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
Again, applying no preconceived notions upon the text, how do you imagine a newcomer to the Scriptures would view the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars just based on what you’ve read here?
THE BIBLE AND THE STILL FLAT EARTH
If I were to be perfectly honest here, I’d have to say that I do not get a spherical globe, spinning around in an endless void of space from my reading of the above Scriptures. The Bible seems to be telling us, in no uncertain terms, that we live on a still (as in stationary), flat, enclosed earth. The following explains why I believe this way.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
This is an introductory statement. It establishes the fact that Elohim is the creator of everything. From there, the text goes on to describe how He did it:
2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Out of nowhere we have water. We never see anything about it being created. It’s just there as a result of the opening statement and it is “deep.” The Hebrew word “heaven” is shamyim. The word for water is, mayim. Thus it would appear that water and heaven have some sort of connection to one another right from the start. After the creation of “light” as day and the declaration that “dark” is night, a “firmament” appears to separate the mayim waters above from the mayim waters below. The word for “firmament” is raqia. This is where things start to get interesting. Note how Brown-Drive-Briggs defines it:
There is a principle of Biblical hermeneutics known as the “Law of First Mention” (or some derivation of that), which states that you look at how a word or concept is first introduced and then consider how it is understood and used elsewhere in light of that first use. The website, biblicalresearch.info describes this law as follows:
The fourth rule of interpretation is THE LAW OF FIRST MENTION.
The meaning of the law of First Mention: The Law of First Mention may be said to be the principle that requires one to go to that portion of the Scriptures where a doctrine is mentioned for the first time and to study the first occurrence of the same in order to get the fundamental inherent meaning of that doctrine.
When this law is applied the simple precedes the complex.
A history of the development of anything will show that it sprang from something in the very simplest form (for example the steamship; airplane; automobile)
In the Scriptures the growth and development of ideas and doctrine might be illustrated by some simple word.
Throughout the history of a term it may have increased its meaning and undergone certain changes, yet the basic, original, fundamental thought is seldom lost.
The fundamental concept usually controls or is dominant in coloring every shade of idea expressed by a term in its current usage
The law of first mention may be said to be the principle that requires one to go to that portion of the Scriptures where a doctrine is mentioned for the first time and to study the first occurrence of the same in order to get the fundamental inherent meaning of that doctrine. When we thus see the first appearance, which is usually in the simplest form, we can then examine the doctrine in other portions of the Word that were given later. We shall see that the fundamental concept in the first occurrence remains dominant as a rule, and colors all later additions to that doctrine. In view of this fact, it becomes imperative that we understand the law of first mention.
With this in mind, in Genesis 1, we have a description of something that would become the sky overhead. But Genesis is not the first Holy Spirit inspired book of Scripture. Job is. Therefore, regarding the sky, let’s consider how the oldest book of the Bible describes it:
Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
If Job is in fact the oldest book, then Genesis doesn’t establish the law of first mention, Job does. Either way, you end up with the same conclusion, backed by the two “beginning” books of the Bible. Genesis begins the Torah, which is the foundation of our whole Bible. Job, being the oldest written text in the Bible fully supports what we see in Genesis. But in Job, we see that the sky is spread out like a molten looking glass, or as other translations render it a cast metal (bronze) mirror:
So much for the notion that the sky/heaven above us consists of just gaseous air. We apparently have a hard canopy somewhere, very high above us. OK. Let’s keep testing that idea. Why does it need to be so hardened?
Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
So, YHWH’s throne sits on top of the firmament, which is described as being cast like a metal mirror! The idea of YHWH’s throne being atop the “firmament” is not unusual:
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
In a Facebook post I quoted the above as sort of a joke asking, What kind of “footstool” spins around 1,000 mph, while running away at 67,000 mph? YHWH’s “throne” sounds like a ride at Disney World. He must get really dizzy. Either that, or maybe the Earth is His treadmill and they just didn’t know how to describe that in Isaiah’s day? 🙂 I originally said that as a joke, but now I am not so sure it is. Remember, we are reading the Scriptures without preconceived notions. The prophets seem to be telling us – point-blank – that YHWH’s throne sits atop the firmament, which would thus have His feet planted on the hard canopy that surrounds the earth. While the firmament is not technically the “earth” as in the mass upon which land and sea are found, the firmament is part of the system that makes the earth what it is.This brings us to the Scripture many have tried to use concerning the shape of the earth:
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
In the past, I have used this same verse to defend the globe idea of the earth myself. But there is a difference between a circle and a globe/sphere/ball. An ice-skating rink is a circle. We skate on it, going round and round, but never, up, over and around. It is not a sphere. It is an enclosure in the shape of a circle. So also it would appear that the Earth is. Check out the Septuagint’s version of this same verse:
Isaiah 40:22 (LXX) [It is] he that comprehends the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants in it are as grasshoppers; he that set up the heaven as a chamber, and stretched [it] out as a tent to dwell in:
Without trying to literally force a globe onto this text, it describes a circular earth that has a heaven (beaten metallic expanse) set up over it as a “chamber,” which is stretched out like a “tent” for us to dwell in. This is describing an enclosed system! How enclosed is it? Let’s go back to Genesis…
Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Please note that the sun, moon and stars are placed inside the enclosed “firmament.” Now, as a believer in the globe model my whole life and a strong advocate for the Creation account of our origins, I have always talked a lot about the firmament as sort of an “ice canopy” that surrounded the Earth before the Flood. Many times, I have referred to the wonderful work of Dr. Carl Baugh and Kent Hovind among others to support that view. But, I subscribed to their model, because like them, I have always believed in the globe representation of the Earth floating in space. See what I’ve done there? I’ve forced my own preconceived ideas onto the text as a result of listening to great men of God who have done the same thing. But that’s not what Moses wrote! He didn’t say God placed the sun, moon and stars around the Earth. He said YHWH placed those things in the firmament that was dividing the waters above from the waters below.
Just to be sure, let’s go back and read Genesis 1, verses 1 through 18 to keep the continuity clear:
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament {that divided the waters} Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
In verses 7 & 8, we see that essentially the “pocket of air,” which is dividing water above from water below is called “Heaven.” Verse 9 is talking about stuff under that heaven, which would become the land, vegetation and seas. This is all inside the dome! Verse 14 never takes us outside of that setting. Nor does the rest of the chapter. The entire chapter from verse 8 forward is “under the dome”! I never noticed that before, because I wasn’t looking for it. But there it is. Plain as day… if not imposing preconceived notions upon the text.
Indeed, this “under the dome” view of the earth was not foreign to the ancients. Many ancient cultures had some variation of this general view of the earth:
The Biblical cosmology is never explicitly stated, so it must be pieced together from scattered passages. The Bible is a composite work, so there is no a priori reason why the cosmology assumed by its various writers should be relatively consistent, but it is. The Bible is, from Genesis to Revelation, a flat-earth book.
This is hardly surprising. As neighbors, the ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.
The Babylonian universe was shaped like a modern domed stadium. The Babylonians considered the earth essentially flat, with a continental mass surrounded by ocean. The vault of the sky was a physical object resting upon the ocean’s waters (and perhaps also upon pillars). Sweet (salt-free) waters below the Earth sometimes manifest themselves as springs. The Egyptian universe was also enclosed, but it was rectangular instead of round. Indeed, it was shaped much like an old-fashioned steamer trunk. (The Egyptians pictured the goddess Nut stretched across the sky as the enclosing dome.) What was the Hebrew view of the universe?
The Order of Creation
The Genesis creation story provides the first key to the Hebrew cosmology. The order of creation makes no sense from a conventional perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth viewpoint. The earth was created on the first day, and it was “without form and void (Genesis 1:2).” On the second day, a vault the “firmament” of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed “in” (not “above”) the vault.
The Vault of Heaven
The vault of heaven is a crucial concept. The word “firmament” appears in the King James version of the Old Testament 17 times, and in each case it is translated from the Hebrew word raqiya, which meant the visible vault of the sky. The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?”
Elihu’s question shows that the Hebrews considered the vault of heaven a solid, physical object. Such a large dome would be a tremendous feat of engineering. The Hebrews (and supposedly Yahweh Himself) considered it exactly that, and this point is hammered home by five scriptures:
Job 9:8, “…who by himself spread out the heavens [shamayim]…”
Psalm 19:1, “The heavens [shamayim] tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven [raqiya] reveals his handiwork.”
Psalm 102:25, “…the heavens [shamayim] were thy handiwork.”
Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine…”
Isaiah 48:13, “…with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]…”
If these verses are about a mere illusion of a vault, they are surely much ado about nothing.Shamayim comes from shameh, a root meaning to be lofty. It literally means the sky. Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God “sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth [chuwg], whose inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the skies [shamayim] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in…[Isaiah 40:22].” Chuwg literally means “circle” or “encompassed.” By extension, it can mean roundness, as in a rounded dome or vault. Job 22:14 says God “walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg].” In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk. Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation. In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as grasshoppers. In Job, God’s eyes must penetrate the clouds to view the doings of humans below. Elevation is also implied by Job 22:12: “Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are.”
This picture of the cosmos is reinforced by Ezekiel’s vision. The Hebrew word raqiya appears five times in Ezekiel, four times in Ezekiel 1:22-26 and once in Ezekiel 10:1. In each case the context requires a literal vault or dome. The vault appears above the “living creatures” and glitters “like a sheet of ice.” Above the vault is a throne of sapphire (or lapis lazuli). Seated on the throne is “a form in human likeness,” which is radiant and “like the appearance of the glory of the Lord.” In short, Ezekiel saw a vision of God sitting throned on the vault of heaven, as described in Isaiah 40:22.
Going back to the Isaiah 40:22 passage, it has been claimed by many (including me in times past) that “circle” is a description of the Earth as a globe. As Robert J. Schadewald points out, the Hebrew word used here is “chug“ (pronounced “khoog”), but is this the word one would use for a ball-shaped object? No. The word comes from another very similar word, both of which mean:
Circle means circle. Not ball. Isaiah clearly knows the difference between a circle and a spherical object. Note that a few chapters prior he uses a completely different word for a ball:
Isaiah 22:18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord’s house.
The Hebrew word Isaiah used for “ball” here is “dur“ because, of course you can’t toss a circle (chug). Whereas, of course, a spherical object you can toss. He knew the difference. Therefore, I now believe Isaiah 40:22 is a terrible Scripture reference to use as a description of the Earth’s shape being a sphere. But, let’s continue to test this. Where else is “chug” used and how?
Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.
How do you “inscribe a circle” on the face of something to get a ball? Seems to me, the circle is something cut into something else. The Hebrew word the ESV translated into “inscribe” is “chaqaq” which means:
Taking the Law of First Mention into account again, we must realize that there was precedence set for the “circle of the earth” prior to Isaiah writing about it. King Solomon is telling us the “circle” Isaiah would later write about (likely being fully aware of what Solomon wrote) was cut into something that was deep. In Genesis, we saw the waters were deep. Then the Holy Spirit moved across the waters. A firmament was created to separate the waters, then the waters under it were gathered into one place and the dry land “appeared.” Could it be that when, YHWH “carved a circle in the deep,” this was how the waters were divided and the land was revealed? I don’t know, but I’m definitely not seeing a ball showing up anywhere in these descriptions. Let’s continue looking at the oldest book of the Bible again:
Job 26:10(NASB) He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.
Job 26:10 (KJV) He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
The KJV uses the word “compassed” in this verse, but the English words mean the same thing: A circular ring that creates a boundary. In this case, the word translated as “inscribed a circle” in the NASB and “compassed the waters” in the KJV is the same word (chug) used in Isaiah 40:22. So, let’s put all of these parallel Scriptures together in the chronological order of time in which they were written:
Job 26:10(NASB) He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.
Genesis 1 (KJV):
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament {that divided the waters} Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.
and finally…
Isaiah 40:22 (KJV) It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Here we see Job, Moses and Solomon setting the stage, with Isaiah actually being the last one in this list to write of these things. Based on the Law of First Mention then, we must understand that he is only confirming what has already been said by others before him concerning how YHWH literally carved a circle into the deep. This kind of language does not give us a picture of a ball floating in endless space. Rather it gives us something that looks more along the lines of the following, which depicts the earth as being a circular mass carved into a base of something else that has 4 corners:
The above pic shows the circle of the earth as having both convexity and concavity to it. I found that to be rather odd. It also does not show the dome. So, I decided to create my own 3D rendering of the Biblically described model (see below). I suspect that before the Flood, the waters below (outside the dome) would have been raised up to cover most – if not all – of the dome. If true, obviously, the sides of the container would have to be higher. Also, if true, this would have caused an increase of pressure inside the dome and may account for the hyperbaric conditions many scholars describe as existing prior to the Flood.
When we get to the Book of Enoch’s take on this, you will see the earth and its boundary described in much greater detail. In the meantime, consider also what the Psalmist said:
Psalm 104: 1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. 6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Which image now better fits what we are reading thus far concerning our circular earth with a boundary around it?
We’ve been taught that the Earth is spinning, with its surface at the equator moving at a speed of roughly 1,000 miles per hour. And we’re told the Earth is zooming around the sun at about 67,000 miles per hour. In addition, our solar system–Earth and all–whirls around the center of our galaxy at some 490,000 miles per hour… but there are a number of Scriptures describing the Earth as being fixed and not moving. This particular passage from Job really caught my attention:
Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Again, Job is believed by many to have been the first book of Scripture written. In it, we see in verse 1 that YHWH Himself is speaking. This is the Creator talking here! He speaks of “laying a foundation” with a “corner stone” that is “fastened” in place. If ever there was a Flat Earther, anti-globalist Scripture, this one is it. How do you twist and distort that Scripture to fit a rotating globe, freely floating in space? Where is the “fastened foundation” with a “corner stone” in that model? Using the principle established in the Law of First Mention, we see there are a number of other authors who carry this theme forward:
1 Samuel 2:8
He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.
1 Chronicles 16:30Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96: 9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.
Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Looking at the various English translations of Psalm 104:5, it really doesn’t look to me like any of them are describing a rotating ball spinning around at 1,000 mph, while whisking around in some kind of an orbit at 67,000 mph. Rather, we have a verbal depiction of something totally stationary, established on a firm foundation…
Here are two of the above verses taken from the Septuagint (the others are pretty much the same as the KJV):
1 Chronicles 16:30 Let the whole earth fear before him; let the earth be established, and not be moved.
Psalm 93:1The Lord reigns; he has clothed himself with honour: the Lord has clothed and girded himself with strength; for he has established the world, which shall not be moved.
And then there is this one:
Zechariah 1:11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sits quietly, and is at rest.
Some try and say, these verses just mean the earth is made the way God wants it and it’s placed where he wants it, not to be moved and (as in the case of Zechariah 1:11) things are in a “peaceful state” of being. OK. That may be one way to read these verses (which requires a globalist preconceived notion). But what if we just accept what it says, literally at face value? Especially considering Psalm 104:5 which clearly says the earth has “foundations” that won’t be moved. How does that look on a floating, rotating globe? Where do you put the “foundations” in that scenario? With the KJV renderings of these verses, some may say there is a difference between “earth” and “world,” as in the word “world” means people or nations. OK. Fine. Let’s go with that. So then what are these verses saying? All of the people are going to be frozen solid so that they “shall not be moved” or what? Seems to me, it’s just saying that this thing we are standing on has been established on something and it’s not going to be moved. Again, tossing out all preconceived ideas of a spinning globe, just reading the text by itself, no one would ever think anything different from what it says.
Plus, we use the word “world” as a synonym for “earth” all the time. As an example, I could say, “As a former missionary, for 6 years, I traveled the world, spreading the Gospel to people in over a dozen countries.” If I said that, you would clearly understand that I was flying around the world – as in the earth – on my mission trips.
What about seeming contradictions such as:
Job 9:6 who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.
Psalms 104:5 Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.
Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Isaiah 24:18 He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
Those are just a few examples of this nature. There are others, which clearly show the earth being knocked around in various ways. I think there is a difference between YHWH being able to shake, rattle and roll the earth at His pleasure or in His anger and the earth being removed altogether from its pillared foundation, so personally, I see no contradiction here. It appears to me that YHWH has set this place up to be permanent, and though He may knock it around from time to time, its still not going to leave its firmly established foundation. Yes, earthquakes and catastrophe are permissible, but utter destruction will never come. Take the Flood of Noah for instance. Clearly, the world was rocked:
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Something got shaken up quite a bit, yet, we’re still here. The earth still stands, unmoved, on a sure foundation. Indeed, without a doubt, Scripture is telling us the earth is not constantly moving. In fact, there is growing evidence within the scientific community revealing that the earth is not rotating either. It is quite stationary in every respect. For further evidence of this in both history and science, please take the time to watch this video:
Let’s forget the globe vs flat/enclosed earth debate for the moment. Start breaking down the various arguments. Some may argue that the geocentric vs heliocentric models are apart from the globe vs flat/enclosed models – as in they are separate, unrelated arguments. I’m actually thinking they are much more connected than many may think. Because if we end up proving the Scriptures mean what they say concerning the earth not moving, then why not accept what it says concerning its circular shape and nature “under the dome” too? Scripture is clearly telling us the world/earth is circular and enclosed and not spherical and floating in an open system of planets and stars outside of the firmament.
Amos 9:6 is also rather interesting, but its meaning gets completely lost in the KJV:
Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.
This use of the word “troop” here gives us the idea of “boots on the ground.” But that doesn’t appear to be what is being said there. Consider some of the other renderings of this verse:
The NASB uses the words “vaulted dome” there. The Hebrew word in question is “aguddah,” which according to Brown-Driver-Briggs means:
So, here again, we have the sense of a vaulted dome setting on the earth. This dome of Heaven is also described as circular:
Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.
Job 22:14 (LXX) A cloud is his hiding-place, and he shall not be seen; and he passes through the circle of heaven.
This makes me think of those long-term exposure pictures we have all seen of the night sky:
According to the Scriptures we’ve looked at so far, we have the Earth under the stretched out “curtain of heaven,” on a foundation that won’t be moved, set about with a boundary. This is painting an interesting picture, but again, it’s definitely not looking like a globe to me. And it also doesn’t look like the Earth is spinning either. Rather, we see the Scriptures painting a picture of a stationary, circular Earth under the circle of heaven. Could the above pics represent the “circle of heaven” in a literal sense? What if the pole star is the actual base of the “circle of heaven” upon which YHWH’s throne sits?
Then we have the whole issue of the so-called “corners” and “ends” of the Earth…
Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.
Many Christian apologists want to convince us this is talking about the four cardinal points as we saw in the GotQuestion.org analysis, which I broke down in the previous blog. But if we accept that the authors of Scripture were directly inspired by the Holy Spirit of the Creator Himself, don’t you think they would have used better terms to describe a spinning globe orbiting the sun if that were indeed the case? Because I must say, if the Bible really is written in 5th Grade reading level English as so many have tried to teach me that it is my whole life, then, a simple reading of the Scriptures absolutely does not paint a picture of a globe! No kid – unhindered by the interpretation and indoctrination of a “scientist,” an “astronaut,” “scholar” or “theologian” – would ever get a spinning globe out of any of the above. Rather, again, Scripture appears to be describing something that may look a lot more like this:
And then what are we supposed to do with these Scriptures…
Joshua 10:13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Habakkuk 3:11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
Isaiah 38:8Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
Those three Scriptures alone argue more in favor of a stationary, fixed earth with a moving sun and moon inside the earth’s firmament than for the typical model we – including me – hold to concerning our globe going around the sun. Even more so when you consider the small sun and moon (which are described as being the same size in the Flat/Enclosed Earth model) are described as parking over specific cities:
Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
Ultimately, the question of the Bible’s validity is raised when looking at the mechanics of the Joshua, Habakkuk and Isaiah stories from the “scientific” perspective. Because the only way the sun and moon could stand still and/or move BACKWARD across the sky in our standard model would be for the earth to stop or suddenly begin to rotate the other way, correct itself and then start back up again in order to get everything back to normal.
“Earth’s magnetic field might go away, too. While we’re not entirely sure how that magnetic field is generated, one leading theory states that it’s the result of Earth’s inner core rotating slightly faster than outer core (yep, two different rotations on one planet). If both of them stop, the mechanism behind Earth’s magnetic field may as well, leaving us exposed to potential harmful solar winds “
“If the Earth stopped spinning suddenly, the atmosphere would still be in motion with the Earth’s original 1100 mile per hour rotation speed at the equator. All of the land masses would be scoured clean of anything not attached to bedrock. This means rocks, topsoil, trees, buildings, your pet dog, and so on, would be swept away into the atmosphere.”
Now watch these videos, as told by those who believe the current, dominant view of our cosmology:
So, if we are to claim we believe the Bible is true and we can take it literally, we have a big problem concerning the stories that describe the sun and moon standing still, and even going backward. I think these are questions worthy of answering from a Biblical world view. And I’m sorry, but typical “apologetics” responses such as the ones given here, don’t really cut it for me: http://creation.mobi/joshuas-long-day Surely, we can do better than that! Of course, saying, “Well, God can do anything. He created the Universe, so surely He could suspend all of the laws of nature and physics to accommodate these miracles” is a nice Kindergarten answer. But such an answer will never satisfy a skeptic with an analytical, scientific mind. They will instead write our Bible off as a book of fantasy. Science triumphs over fantasy. Why believe a book that is so demonstrably false? See the problems we run into?
In an enclosed, flat, stationary model however, those problems are easily solved. The same with Scriptures like these:
Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
I can hear the arguments already. Daniel is having a dream. In the temptation of Christ, Satan could have shown Jesus a “movie” of sorts, or maybe it was just all of the “local kingdoms” viewable from that particular mountain. In Revelation, maybe Jesus has booked a round-the-world tour before touching down (despite the fact that Scripture seems to be saying He’s booked a direct flight, down from the clouds to the Mount of Olives). OK. But what if… we just believe what everyone else has been telling us in the Scriptures? If the world is flat, each of the above examples are totally doable. We don’t have to make up excuses. We just have to believe it.
Then, of course we also have to deal with Scriptures that describe the stars falling from Heaven and/or ceasing to give their light, such as in these Scriptures:
Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
What? The stars and constellations are all going to “wink out” and no longer give their light? But what about the alleged planets going around those stars? Of course, we can try and rationalize this away and say that we just won’t be able to see them because the sky on Earth is going to be cloudy or offer up some other lame, eisegetical explanation, but that’s not what the text says.
We must also consider the fact that Genesis as well as the book of Enoch both tell us that the moon is a (female) “lessor light” that is self illuminating. Nothing in the ancient texts even hint at her as being a reflector of the sun. Even science confirms the fact that her light is quite different from that of her fiery, male counterpart. Isaiah also confirms this idea by stating that the moon “shall not cause her lightto shine.” Later in the text, Isaiah then goes on to describe the heavens rolling up like a scroll.
Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Wait. What? The Universe is going to roll up like a scroll? Its “hosts” (stars) are going to fall down… presumably on us?? How are we to imagine the cosmos that Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins want us to believe in doing this?
Furthermore, are we to accept the notion that the literal fate of the allegedly ever expanding Universe, as taught to us in school, literally hinges on the sin and subsequent judgement of humans on Earth? Are the worlds allegedly orbiting countless suns in billions of galaxies all going to be judged and burned up because of us? Is that really fair? Yet, this is exactly what we are literally forced to accept if we are to believe the Holy Spirit inspired words of prophets like Isaiah or apostles like Peter and John…
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
By the way, we must also note that Isaiah’s prophecy concerning the stars falling finds a second witness in the words of Yeshua (Jesus Christ) Himself!
Matthew 24: 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is an extraordinary passage of Scripture! First, we are told that we will essentially be bedazzled by “signs and wonders” such that even “the very elect” could be deceived by them. Then, we are told what not to look for and what we should look for in the coming return of our Savior. Immediately after the tribulation, we discover that the sun is going to be darkened and the moon will no longer give (not reflect) her light, and the stars will literally fall from Heaven.
Again, we find another witness concerning the stars falling, by our Savior in the Revelation of Jesus Christ as given to the Apostle John:
Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
That’s what was revealed to us by God from two different witnesses (one of them being the Creator Himself!) over hundreds of years. So, if we say we take the Bible literally, we’ll have a big problem with these Scriptures. Then again, what right do we have to not take them literally? In other words, it is only our preconceived notions of stars such as Acturus, Vega, Pollux, Aldebaran, Betelgeuse and Sirius as essentially being distant suns with planets going around them that prevent us from taking these Scriptures literally. I mean, it would be a very bad day if stars are what Carl Sagan and other monkey-man scientists would have us to believe they are come falling down to earth like figs! But what if the stars really are intelligent beings? We see a number of references to angels as stars. Take these for instance:
Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Singing stars during the Creation account? Note also that Job 38:7 quite literally obliterates the bogus “Sethite Theory” concerning Genesis 6:4. The sons of Seth were not there at the start of Creation. Sorry. Neither does the text of Genesis 6 make any mention whatsoever of the sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain. That’s bogus eisegetical theology at its best. No. The “sons of God” of Job 38:7 are the same as the “sons of God” in Genesis 6:4. They are angels!
The Apostle John makes note of an angel as a star too…
Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
People even began to worship the stars as god-like, sentient beings:
2 Kings 21:5 And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.
2 Kings 23:5 (ISV) The king unseated the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had appointed to burn incense in the high places throughout the cities of Judah and in the environs surrounding Jerusalem, including those who had been burning incense to Baal, to the sun, to the moon, to the constellations, and to every star in the heavens.
Note: I chose the ISV for 2 Kings 23:5 because I believe the KJV is in error in its use of the word “planets” for “mazzaloth,” which is the Hebrew version of what we call the Zodiac, or as the ISV renders it, “the constellations.”
Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Biblically speaking, the “hosts of heaven” are usually associated with the “armies of heaven” – or in other words the angels. But the “hosts of heaven” is also frequently used as a reference to the stars. Could there be a reason for this? I think so. Note also: IF this proves to be true, then we must re-evaluate our thinking concerning this Scripture too:
Revelation 19: 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Again, all through the Scriptures, we see references to the armies of Heaven as “the hosts of heaven” and as YHWH being the “Lord of hosts” and such. Nowhere do we ever see a “bride” depicted as a soldier. Newly wedded women especially do NOT go to war. So it can not be the “Christians” (i.e. the “bride of Christ”) who were supposedly Raptured out earlier that are coming back with Him. Could it then literally be the “hosts of heaven” – the billions of stars we see up there in the dome – that are coming with Him? I will cover this in a lot more depth in my upcoming blog, Angels as Stars.
Getting back to the nature of our world and its place in the cosmos, there are a LOT more Scriptures we could look at regarding the above topics. In fact, the more you search the Bible for your answers, you’ll keep running into descriptions of the earth stating:
1) It is fixed and not moving (spinning, orbiting, etc.)
2) It is circular and has edges/corners/pillars/foundations, etc.
3) The #4 comes up a lot in reference to 4 corners, 4 winds, etc. – the 4 corners indicating a circle carved into a square
4) It is hedged about with a boundary that connects with Heaven
5) There is a metallic canopy of sorts stretched out like a “tent” over it, within which the (sentient?) stars, sun and moon are placed to move about above the stationary earh.
Whether or not we want to accept this will depend on our willingness to admit the level of cognitive dissonance we still want to maintain. And lest you be tempted to think I’m just an uneducated, village idiot and nothing I’ve said has any “crediblity” much less truth, please watch this video and see what Dr. Michael Heiser and others have to say about the Bible’s descriptions of the cosmos:
Things get even worse if we accept the Book of Enoch as having any measure of credibility, because as far as I’m concerned, that book knocks a home run out of the park for the Flat Earthers. Before we go into the Book of Enoch though, I’d like to take a good hard look at angels and how they relate to the stars above.
– See more at: http://testingtheglobe.com/bible.html#sthash.B5BRmkkz.dpuf
Many of my ‘scientifically’ minded friends have mockingly declared, “Why haven’t the FE’rs sent up a rocket to prove the flatness if NASA is lying to us?” Well, here is a private rocket launch in 2014 by GoFast which went to 73 miles above the earth. The moon is revealed in this rocket video where it shouldn’t have been for that rocket launch, time, and position where it should not have been when it was at zenith over Australia which would have been behind the curvature of the earth. Unfortunately, this video has been removed:
An often repeated maxim in Christian circles is, “Where the Scriptures speak, we speak. Where the Scriptures are silent we are silent.”
I do not think anyone truly keeps this saying. It is not practical. All men speak beyond the scriptures. However, many refuse to admit to it. I suggest a better aphorism for theological reflection, which has become known as the Wesley Quadrilateral: The core of the Christian doctrine and faith is revealed in Scripture; but our faith is also illumined by tradition, quickened in personal experience of the Holy Spirit, and confirmed by reason. There are paradoxes in scripture that cannot be answered without the use of tradition, experience and reason; all Christians employ them to some extent, whether or not they admit it.
A child or a new Christian should have a strong foundation of scripture study nurtured by parents, pastors and fellow believers. Being a part of a church community is vital! Church history and tradition as revealed through the fathers of the church and the creeds are valuable sources for theological reflection. Regrettably, most Christians are woefully ignorant of the traditions of our fathers established by the long history of Christianity as expressed in different nations and cultures.
The Holy Spirit has spoken through church councils and individuals with prophetic gifts throughout history. He continues to speak today through the experiences of men vivified through the third person of the Trinity. One should not ignore the mystical element of our union with Christ, who communicates through and to each generation of believers.
One of the laws of logic is the law of non-contradiction. Yet, Christians in their appeal to the Bible often contradict themselves. Christian doctrine is in conformity to the laws of reason, or natural law. Self-contradictory doctrines cannot be true. Trying to understand Scriptures independently of reason is folly. God himself is the Logos, which may be translated the Logic. Would he speak contrary to reason?
One problem in appealing to Scripture alone is that the Scriptures were inspired in the context of a particular historical time and place. Paul’s letters often address issues, which were relevant to the primitive church, but not necessarily as pertinent to Christians of our time or place. Sometimes we may not have enough historical information to understand what Paul, Peter, James or John meant. How can we really understand the Bible and the Christian faith and its application to modern life, if we ignore tradition, experience and reason as aids in our understanding of the faith, which was once delivered to the saints of old and continues to be conveyed to us today?
With this in mind, we must understand that reason has limits, because the human mind has been restricted by the fall. When we study history, we often only see in a glass darkly. Furthermore the pride of life is always lurking to try and lead us astray as we gain more knowledge.
In conclusion, scripture, tradition, experience and reason, guided by the Holy Spirit and guarded by a community of believers will keep us on the straight and narrow.
Often when speaking to people about our most holy faith the issue of what the believer is to do and not do comes up. The old adage, “Faith alone by grace alone not of ourselves that no one can boast.” will come up to defend living in sin as a carnal ‘Christian’. Of course there are verses that could support this idea.
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. [But, don’t forget vs. 10,] “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
There is also Rom 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)
Any Christian who is worth a lick of salt will confer to the Holy Spirit to confirm through the Holy Scriptures whether or not a particular doctrine or idea is true. So, how can there be so much abhorrence to the idea of the believer actually doing things that are good and holy according to the Bible? Why is there such an aversion to the idea that whether we are saved or not is based on the idea that we are bearing good fruit for the King and the Kingdom to come? Why come up with fairy tales like; imputed righteousness, unconditional salvation, OSAS, etc to try and comfort ourselves while we do the work of the devils in our hearts and minds and go to ‘church’ while calling ourselves believers?
Jesus equated belief with obedience to the Light.
John 3:17-21 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
So, here we see belief equated with good deeds, and unbelief equated with sin or bad deeds because men love sin and not Jesus. On top of that Jesus condemns the unbelieving doers of evil. This should cause men to quake in their spiritual boots whichever side you find yourself at any given moment. The bishop of the church in Jerusalem, James couldn’t be more clear about faith and works.
James 2:14-26What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?For the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
This should settle the issue anytime someone brings up the works salvation accusation against holiness believers. But, alas it seems to fail every time! They just like the zombies they are will continue to quote Eph 2 until they find themselves dead physically and sealed in their spiritual dead condition awaiting Judgment day.
The accusation we are working for our salvation is a false accusation because every holiness believer I know agree that there is NOTHING we can do apart from the power of God demonstrating His grace through us. Ultimately, it is by faith we are saved because without faith in Christ and His atonement at the cross, no good work could ever help us no matter how great the work! Without faith, no man can please God. To compare any of our work to the work of Jesus Christ on the cross would be blasphemy. This is the fatal spiritual error of: Roman Catholics, JW’s, Mormons, SDA, etc.
Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Acts 26:19-20 Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Rom 2:1-16Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Cross Stick Toons courtesy of Jeremiah Waldrop
Here is a tsunami list of New Testament verses on the works of the believer. Notice verses support both those that will be saved in good works and those that won’t be saved despite good works.
Mat_5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat_7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat_11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
Mat_11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Mat_11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Mat_11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat_13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
Mat_13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Mat_14:2 And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.
Mat_16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat_23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat_23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mar_6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Mar_6:14 And king Herod heard of him; (for his name was spread abroad:) and he said, That John the Baptist was risen from the dead, and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.
Luk_10:13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
Luk_19:37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
Joh_5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Joh_5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh_6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh_7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
Joh_7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
Joh_8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh_9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Joh_9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh_14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh_15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Act_2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act_7:41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Act_9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
Act_15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Rom_3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom_4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom_4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom_9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom_13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom_13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
2Co_11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal_3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal_3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal_5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Eph_2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph_5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Col_1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
1Ti_2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti_5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
1Ti_5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
1Ti_6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Ti_4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
Tit_1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Tit_2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
Heb_1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb_2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb_3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb_4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb_4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb_6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb_9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb_10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Jas_2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas_2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas_2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas_2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas_2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Jas_3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
1Pe_2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn_3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
Rev_2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev_2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev_2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev_2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev_3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev_3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev_3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev_3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev_9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev_14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Rev_15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev_18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev_20:12-13 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
We didn’t see this coming? My view and supposition is that conservative Christians are not lion like in their approach to the onslaught of our perfect and true religion. By personal experience, I know that most Christian lawyers want the easier win, the non confrontational cases which don’t cause many waves to their reputation/careers. But, never before in our history has the bold preaching of the Gospel more warranted and the defense of the same! But, MOST ‘Christians’ do not want to take up this cross and follow Jesus. This may mean loss of family, jobs, reputation, jail time, fines, harassment, persecutions, and even beheadings. The winnowing fork of Jesus is upon the threshing floor for the ‘church’ in Amerika! Get ready Amerikan church, your time to rise up has been decades overdue!
PILGRIM BECOMES AN EVANGELIST An Allegory of the 21st Century Christian Walk
Having only had my eyes opened for a short time, I now realized that most of the people around me were rushing towards the City of Destruction. My heart burned within me as I struggled to persuade them that they must turn and go with me on the way to the Celestial City. Daily I stood on the way as they thronged around me and cried out to them to turn. Frequently they would berate me and tell me to take my preaching to the church. But often one of them would stop and speak with me giving me opportunity to shed some light into their hearts and plead with them for their soul. One day as I stood and cried aloud my fellow pilgrim, MR. COWARD approached me and asserted that I was doing it the wrong way and would surely keep some from ever joining us on our trip to the Celestial City. Being a new pilgrim, I was smitten in my heart that I might be a cause of them not heeding the words of truth. Eagerly I asked MR. COWARD for help in learning how best to touch these desperate souls. He did not seem to have any answer, but simply stated that he tried to befriend them and eventually HE HOPED they would ask him for the truth. Of course, I wanted to befriend them also, as I was much troubled over their plight, but as I pored over the Holy words of Truth, I saw that the Apostle Paul said in Acts 10:42 “And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.” This much encouraged my heart and I again went out to the broad way where the sinners were going on their way heedless of the danger that awaited them. Once again MR. COWARD saw me and came over along with MR. SANCTIMONIOUS. They stated that perhaps if I really felt that I needed to scream in public I could find someplace where I would not bother anyone. They seemed to be much concerned about the image that I was giving fellow pilgrims. I pointed out to them that John the Baptist, Paul, Peter and the other apostles and even our Lord preached outdoors frequently and I urged them to stay and help me but they seemed to take great offence and pointed out to me that EVANGELIST would be coming through the area soon. They said we could bring the sinners to hear him then and perhaps he could persuade them of their peril. Thinking that they were older pilgrims than I and undoubtedly had more wisdom I waited eagerly for EVANGELIST to arrive. Earnestly I invited and befriended all those I could, but I could not help but feel that it was SO FEW! Night after night of EVANGELIST‘S meeting, I looked in vain for those lost souls to come. It seemed to me the building was filled with fellow pilgrims and yet EVANGELIST preached as if the building was full of unbelievers. Not understanding, I spoke with EVANGELIST and told him if he would accompany me on the morrow I would show him where he could preach to thousands of lost souls and perhaps we could rescue some of them. But it seemed that EVANGELIST‘s time was already planned and besides PASTOR APATHY had already told him that he did not want our place of worship to be considered so peculiar. Being much in turmoil over the lost souls on the OUTSIDE, and all the preaching going on INSIDE, I again turned to the Holy word and found that if I would be a true evangelist and indeed even a good Christian I must GO (Matthew 28: 19-20) and plead with the sinners where they were which was in the markets (Acts 17:17), local gathering places (Mars Hill-Acts 17:22), in prisons (Acts 16:31) and generally OUTSIDE the church. The spirit much strengthened me as I approached the road leading to the city of Destruction and stood in the midst of the sinners and cried out “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.“
